Transcript

Clay: This is The Stock Trading Reality Podcast, episode 271.
Announcer: This is The Stock Trading Reality Podcast, where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by everyday normal people, who are currently on their journey to trading success. And this is your host, eating lunch with a Navy Seal was a big highlight for him, ClayTrader.
Clay: It was awesome. Now full disclosure at the time, he wasn’t quite a Navy Seal yet, but he had already gotten through the Hollywood part of the training that you always see in documentaries, in the movies, where they just beat the crap out of these guys. He had already been through that, and now he was just totally in more so the training part. So technically speaking, he could still fail out and not make it. But he’s well beyond that point where, I mean, unless he does something just extremely moronic, I mean, he’s going to be in. I only have a data point of one. I’ve only ever met one soon to be Navy Seal, but me and my brother-in-law, we’re just grilling him about, just like any of us mere mortals would be like, “So what was the training like?” And he’s just so humble about it.
Clay: And I guess from my understanding though, it seems like most Navy Seals and really just most military people in general are humble people. They’re not walking around thinking that they’re better. But, I mean, to know just how difficult that stuff is and how crazy it can get, and he was just so humble about it. But it was a great experience, and a very small world because I actually sit next to his dad. Every Wednesday morning, I go to a Bible study. I sit next to him, and I’ve never met his son before. But you’d always hear, “Such and such, I just talked to him on the phone and he’s talking about how his body’s not working right, right now, because they’re beating him down. But he’s having fun.”
Clay: And then to think that I went out there and met him. And I still haven’t been able to tell his dad yet because all that happened right before everything started to shut down with coronavirus. So of course, that means all the restaurants around here are shut down, which means I haven’t seen his dad now in well over a month. But I’m looking forward to saying, “Hey, guess who I bumped into out in San Diego.” But like I said, hopefully the whole coronavirus thing, let me put it this way, hopefully by the time you’re listening to this, which will be in May, hopefully we’ve made a lot of progress and the economy has started to open back up. But as of right now, as of the recording of this, we’re still within the thicket of things.
Clay: But as for our talk today, very, very great interview. I talk with Amit. And I think we determined he’s right around two or three months to the site, so if you’ve been in the chat room, I’m sure you’ve been in there, he tries to get in there as much as possible. But he is somebody that he held nothing back, and he admitted a few things that I just had a laugh about. But they provide great examples of just how crazy the human mind can be and how bizarre things that should make sense to certain people, they just miss them. Things hide in plain sight and it doesn’t quite… I won’t even try to explain. You’ll see when we get to that point. But you’ll be saying, “Wait a second. You’re this, so how did you not notice that? How did you not connect those two dots?” But he didn’t. But again, that’s just the crazy nature of our human minds. But without further ado, let’s hear about Amit and his journey. Amit, welcome to the show.
Amit: Thank you, Clay. Thanks for having me here.
Clay: Well, thank you for volunteering to be here. Right off the bat, before I forget to do that, you make my life very easy when I send out emails looking for people. And you volunteered to be here, so I really do appreciate that. And without people like you, the podcast wouldn’t exist, the podcast wouldn’t continue. So I really do appreciate that. And for listeners’ sake here, we have plenty of time, but Amit is a member of the program, and we’re recording this on a Tuesday evening. And part of the program though, our Tuesday evening live webinars, so we’ll keep things moving here because Amit knows that there’s a webinar to follow immediately after this, which it sounds like he’s going to try to make, but he’s not quite sure. But regardless, Amit, again, I thank you for being here.
Clay: And let’s just start right at the get go, right at the start from all this. Where did you hear about the markets? And what sort of events or what have you played out and took place that brought you to the point where you decided you wanted to get more hands on with all this trading stuff?
Amit: It’s interesting because my wife and I, we used to work at TD Ameritrade about seven years ago. And I quit the job from there. And over there, I was a programmer for an options trading platform. So that was basically where I got exposure to market. It was just options market though. And then I traded a little bit over there, and then I quit job. I changed my jobs over here and then I never traded for a good seven years. And then all of a sudden, this random post came up from Warrior Trader about the whole commission becoming zero, and I started looking into that.
Amit: And then I just thought, “Maybe I should trade again.” And then started researching around. And then I started coming across your training material, and that’s when I got back into the swing of it. That’s all of it in a nut shell.
Clay: Okay. Nice nut shell. Now you were a programmer for TD Ameritrade. So are you one of the people that was working on was it Thinkorswim back then when you were doing it?
Amit: Thinkorswim was a big firm that got acquired and before that they bought another startup called market year and the platform was called Options 360. Me and my wife, we were the sole programmers of that platform.
Clay: Is that where you met your wife?
Amit: No, we knew each other 10 years before that.
Clay: I was hoping we’d have a really romantic story about how you guys met each other over some lines of code. “I met my wife, we talked about algorithms over a candlelight dinner.” But all right, well I guess not. Well, that’s pretty interesting that you had… I guess so if you ever had any problems with TD Ameritrade and their platform back several years ago, I guess this is the guy you got to get on his case about now. How many programmers were part of an operation like that to build or maintain such a big platform for, it was just very clearly a massive company in TD Ameritrade?
Amit: It was huge. Ameritrade did not build Thinkorswim, Thinkorswim another brokerage firm that started and the whole platform, if I’m not wrong, it was built somewhere from offshore and then it was acquired by TD Ameritrade.
Clay: But what you were building though, how many programmers were part of that operation before they had acquired the Thinkorswim platform?
Amit: Oh, I see. So the Options 360 was a two man operation. So me and my wife were the programmers, and there were two owners of that operation and they were in the business of teaching options.
Clay: So it was just a two person operation, you and your wife? Okay. I thought this was like a massive staff of people or something like that. But it wasn’t. Well, that’s actually really-
Amit: No, it was a-
Clay: …that’s impressive. Was that stressful?
Amit: It was stressful in a positive way.
Clay: Interesting.
Amit: I learned a lot of programming things and just market things and option things from there in my career and those were very valuable lessons in shaping me and where I am right now.
Clay: That’s super fascinating. The world gets smaller and smaller, the more of these interviews that I do. But okay, well, going on a little further, you said you did a little trading then. Were you actually trading options or what were you trading back at that point before you stepped away from the markets?
Amit: They were mostly covered calls with a bunch of standard SPY and Qs and all of those in my portfolio and keep riding covered calls. And then the way the markets were swinging back then, as long as you gave enough expiration time to your trade, chances were that the trade will roll into your favor. That’s what I used to do back then.
Clay: Okay, nice. Nice. So you just gave yourself plenty of time and because the market is what it is, it just worked out. Now I’m assuming that eventually it didn’t work out, or let me just ask, what took you away from the markets? Was it a bad trade or something, or what exactly caused you to step away?
Amit: Not a bad trade but just… At Thinkorswim what happened was they had a couple of rounds of layoffs. The first round I survived, the second round came, I survived. But at that point I just thought that’s too much. I don’t want to deal with it and I just quit finance completely.
Clay: Okay. And then when you quit, you just lost interest in the markets or you just pretty much, is that essentially how it went then?
Amit: Yeah, that’s exactly how it went. I was like, “Yeah, I have enough. I’m getting decent salary, it’s a programmer’s salary, I can survive, I don’t think I need more money and I’m good right now.” So that was that.
Clay: That was that, I like that. That was that. No, I believe you. So, let me preface this by, I do believe you, that you saw the ad and the ad was somebody talking about commission free trading, but I mean, is that really the only thing that brought you back was because it just happened to be commission free or was there something more to it? That just seems like too easy of a-
Amit: No, no there was-
Clay: Go ahead.
Amit: Yeah, there was a lot more to it. So it’s a little bit of a whole philosophy. Last seven years after my son was born. So interestingly after I quit the Ameritrade and I took another job and after seven or eight months, my wife got pregnant, my son. And after that, my perspective has changed a lot. I have changed a lot and after all this time, let me try… So what happened is after, I knew before I saw the ad that there are commission free trade by TD Ameritrade and I [inaudible 00:11:57] I was like, “Yeah, how are they going to make money now?” And that is why I clicked on their Warrior Trading link and that is how I found out about their trading. And I don’t like cold weather, so I had always thought about, “Yeah, we’ll move to hot weather and do something.” And then that’s how I was like, “Yeah, day trading is a full time career. That sounds interesting.” And that is what got me into the market again.
Clay: Okay. All right. That makes more sense other than just, “Oh, it’s free commission, boom now I’m going full bar.” Okay. All right. That makes a whole lot more sense than day trading. Was day trading a totally brand new concept to you or in your mind was it just you have investing in stocks and then you have the options market, which you clearly knew about because of your previous career, but was day trading something that you would literally just never really heard of before until that point?
Amit: That is correct. I had never heard of it.
Clay: That’s pretty crazy. I mean, very clearly I would have falsely assumed that if somebody would have worked at a big trading firm such as TD Ameritrade, that you would have an idea of yeah. That you have investor in an options trading and there’s swing, but I guess you’re just there to do some coding.
Amit: Yeah, we were programmers and-
Clay: Yeah, props to you. You kept your head down and focused on what you were supposed to be focused on. So well done in that regard. Okay. Well you determine and you learn about day trading and you say, “Okay, day trading exists, that sounds really interesting.” So where did things go from there? I mean, did you just start to Google and YouTube and pick by book, I mean, where did your journey take from that time where you learned about day trading?
Amit: Yeah, exactly like you said. Googled around, go to Amazon, look up for some books. And I came across this book by Andrew Aziz. It’s one of the best sellers for day trading. So I read the whole book and I knew candlesticks and I knew the technical indicators. I knew what they meant, I never knew how to use them.
Amit: So I read the book and then, yeah, simulators. So then I started practicing with paper money on Thinkorswim platform. And as I kept doing that, I would watch all these YouTube videos and when I was looking at those, sometimes your trading videos would come up. I used to see those and yeah, that’s pretty much where I… And I knew that I was lacking something so I needed some education and that is where I was comparing a lot of offerings from a lot of people like Andrew Aziz has his own set of things where he teaches and stuff like that. There’s another couple of players, they sounded like bigger firms [inaudible 00:15:09], your offering sounded more like a 1% offering, which I liked. I liked that one man show. So [crosstalk 00:15:20].
Clay: Yeah, instead of where you’re getting tossed to some massive company or something like that. Now I want to rewind a little bit because you made a very, very intriguing comment, which I see all the time. But you said, for example, you knew what candlesticks were, you just didn’t know how to use them. And I mean, so when you say that, do you mean you understood like, “Okay, well that’s an open and that’s where the close is and that’s the high and that’s the low.” Is that what you meant by you knew what a candlestick was?
Amit: Yeah. I knew high, low, open, close. I knew support, I knew resistances, I knew-
Clay: But you didn’t know how to actually use them.
Amit: Exactly.
Clay: I mean as listeners maybe that doesn’t sound like wait, “What’s the difference? What does that matter?” That matters so much. That is so true. I see it all the time where people think that because they understand what a candlestick is, because they understand what a support is, what a resistance is. “Oh, I know what a moving average is. Oh, I know what a Bollinger Band is.” There’s a big difference between knowing what stuff is, being able to identify something, but actually being able to use it in a practical way and in a way that’s going to make it consistent and make you actually profitable over time. So that was a brilliant statement on your part. You knew what that stuff was, you just didn’t know how to use it.
Clay: At what point though, did you realize that you didn’t know how to use it? Did that come about during those simulators in demo accounts you were using? But I mean, I realize right now in hindsight you’re looking back and saying, “Well yeah, I mean I didn’t actually know how to use them.” But was there anything that occurred in your journey where the light bulb went on and you thought, “You know what? Yeah, I know what this stuff is, but I have no idea how to use it.” I mean, do you remember where that ever came to light?
Amit: Yes. If we take this a little bit back, after reading this book by Andrew Aziz, at that point I knew I did not even know about you guys. So I was just paper trading there and after two or three weeks into it, I was up buy a good $12,000 in paper trading and in spite of that, some of these reverse trade videos that you have on YouTube, where if a stock is gap down and the candle is going up and you’re trying to short it at a price about that. I didn’t even know what you were doing. So yeah, at that point candle, I was like, “Yeah, well if I don’t even understand what this guy is doing, it doesn’t matter that I am up 12 grand, I’m lacking something.”
Clay: Out of curiosity, what were you using for your demo account or your simulator?
Amit: Thinkorswim.
Clay: Okay. Thinkorswim and what account size were you using when you generated that 12,000? Don’t they start you off with $500,000 or something like that?
Amit: Yep.
Clay: And is that what you were using, were you trading with a $500,000 account?
Amit: It gave 100,000 by default. And with the day trading power is $200,000. So that’s what I was using.
Clay: Okay. And is that what you were going to… I mean whenever you went to real money, is that what you would have been using as $100,000 account?
Amit: To be honest, yes.
Clay: Oh, okay. So you were actually keeping it realistic then?
Amit: It was a fluke.
Clay: All right. I like the honesty. All right, so it just happened to be a number that… But okay. So in your mind you had no idea. Let me put it this way because that backfired on me but as Amit said, it was a flu cow backfired on me. But a lot of these demo, a lot of these simulator programs out there, by default, they’ll start you with $100,000 or $500,000. But the question you need to ask yourself is, “Okay, well when I go live with real money, how much money am I actually going to be using?”
Clay: And let’s just say that you’re going to be starting with, and I’m just making up this number, $5,000. Well then you need to make sure that you are paper trading, you are demo trading with $5,000 because I get it. It’s fun, it’s exciting, you can generate big gains. You have so much more flexibility when you’re using $100,000 account rather than a $5,000 account. But that’s really just a total waste of time because once you go live with real money, it’s just not the same. And the whole goal of the whole principle behind paper trading and practice is, well, let’s try to make this as realistic as possible.
Clay: So that’s where I was trying to go with Amit, but I didn’t realize it was going to backfire on me. So by a fluke you were practicing with the amount that you could have gone live with. But it sounds like, now talking in hindsight were you pretty much just making stuff up as you went. There was no really game plan that you were doing during that demo trading?
Amit: There was a little bit of game plan. Because the book-
Clay: All right. So let me ask you this way. What did you think you were doing? I mean, in your mind, if I would’ve talked to you back then and I said, “Hey man, what’s your strategy? How are you setting up your trade plans and all that?” I mean, what did you think you were doing at that moment of your journey?
Amit: Well, mainly, I was playing the ABCD pattern. Stock goes up, pulls back a little bit, wait for that and then try to get in and the formula for stop loss, I followed what the Andrew Aziz’s book prescribed. So it was like no more than 1% of your trading account and then a stop-loss at a reasonable level. So that is what I was going with. And [inaudible 00:21:43] has these things where it has a one click, reverse your position. I was using all of those craziness and yeah, I was using big position sizes.
Amit: I was going for 500 shares, sometimes thousands shares and the gains looked great. But I did not get that many losses and there was one day where it got very interesting because I see a lot of, “Grow your small account with options.” Those kind of YouTube videos keep coming up and I played and one time I made $3,000 in just one Tesla trade, and I was like, “Yeah, this is awesome.” A couple of days later, I made another 1,500 and I ran for more and I lost four grand and then I played more and I was up about five grand on the same day. And that’s when I realized, “Nah, this is gambling.”
Clay: Well good on you for realizing because those are some big swings to be up thousands and then down thousands, and then back to breakeven. And, well, I’m glad the light bulb went on and I will say to listeners out there, at least, if you’re not going to take anything away from this discussion, at least just demo trade. Now there’s a whole massive warning sign about the bad habits you could potentially be building and you’re going to create more headaches for yourself over time. But that’s so much better than getting out there and throwing your money into the market and then finally realizing, “Oh, I’m actually gambling right now. Maybe I shouldn’t be doing this.” Please just make that discovery within some demo account. So good on you for at least being smart enough to realize that and not fooling yourself into thinking, “Oh wow. I can’t believe I just recovered from that massive… I was in such a big hole, but I recovered. Wow, I’m good.”
Clay: No, you were like, “Wait, what is going on? I’m just totally gambling.” So you determined that you were gambling and where did you go from that point? Because that’s actually a big realization when you, as somebody that’s new and learning, just admit that to yourself where you’re like, “I really don’t know what I’m doing. This is just not working. I don’t know what I’m doing.” That’s a big step in the right direction. So I mean there’s no shame there because you can’t fix anything if you never admit that there’s a problem in the first place. So you admitted there was a problem. You admitted you don’t know what you’re doing. “I’m gambling.” So where did things go from that point?
Amit: When I was playing around with those, I knew about ClayTrader, I knew about Warrior Trading and I also knew that I was never going to go with Warrior Trading, but I had your website and I had Andrew Aziz’s website, and there was someone else. I had two or three people that I wanted to take education from and I was discussing it with my wife. I was like, “Hey, I want to pay and get education from here.” And my wife wasn’t too sure of it. So she was like, “You already know everything. Why do you want spend?” Taking it back to seven years ago, who were the founders of that startup, who were sold. So they’re still pretty good friends with me and they were the ones who taught me trading in the first place. So I spoke with him and I was like, “Hey, this guy teaches education, looks like a good guy, he’s charging a good two grand, over two grand. What do you think? Should I pay?”
Amit: And I thought he was going to say, “No, you’re dumb. You already know everything.” But he did not. He said, “No, that’s a great thing. You should because it’s like having a good mentor all along the way.” I was like, “Yeah. That’s awesome.” And then I tried to convince my wife, eventually she got convinced and that’s how I bought the material and that’s that.
Clay: Well, I’m glad that you didn’t do anything behind your wife’s back. That’s always something that’s… Talk about the exact opposite way you want to go about anything. And there’s, I say that kidding, but I’ll say it’s serious because as a listener, if you haven’t really started your journey, just realize that it is not easy. It’s going to punch you in the face, it’s going to mentally try to just destroy you. So you need a support system in place. And if you’re married, well then your significant other needs to be on board. They need to be there to support you. And like I said, the exact opposite way to gain support is to try to sneak stuff behind their back and do stuff like that. So don’t do that. I’m glad that your wife took some convincing, but you didn’t sneak around or do anything like that because that would just be very nonproductive.
Clay: Let’s see. The all took place. I’m thinking about what, about two months ago, three months ago. I’ve lost track. I know you’re not brand new anymore, but I mean, it’s not like you’ve been around for years, like some members. Didn’t you join two-ish, three-ish months ago?
Amit: Yeah. Something like that. Two, three months ago. Yeah.
Clay: Okay. So walk us through your educational experience because I always enjoy hearing this because everybody goes about learning and studying different ways. And some people they go about it the very bad way. They’re like, “Oh, I paid for education.” And then they treat it like their get out of jail card and then they can start behaving any manner they want. But walk us through how you’ve been going about all this. I mean you signed up and I’m assuming you didn’t start to throw real money in the markets, but I guess walk us through how you’ve been going through this educational part of your journey so far.
Amit: So after I signed up, the first couple of weeks, it was a complete overload because there is just so much material that I had to go through. So I stopped trading because with a full time job and kid and all of that, these classes and all, I only had so much time. So I had to decide whether, what do I do, I trade or I learn? And so I stopped trading for a couple of weeks while I went through the material. I was-
Clay: Sorry. Not to interrupt, but I’m a little confused. So when you say you stopped trading, that means that had you already been trading with real money or is this the trading are you referring to, is that the training that you were doing in the simulator?
Amit: I was swing trading with real money.
Clay: Oh, okay.
Amit: And paper trading in simulator.
Clay: Okay. Well let’s talk about the swing trade and then, because I didn’t realize that there was some real money trading going on. So you had some real money. You’re doing swing trading. So I guess walk us through what was your swing trading strategy? What were you were looking at… Now I get it, you were looking to swing trade, but walk us through more of the details of what that strategy was looking like.
Amit: That’s a very good question that you bring because, so I had some interesting experiences there. So couple of trades I used… There are other cheaper services out there who would give out watch these stocks or who give out their trade. So I used to do those. I used to follow those trades, just blindly them in my account and all this was before corona, so everything was going up. It didn’t matter what stock you pick, it is going to go up.
Amit: It was going good for two weeks or so. I was up about $1,000 or so. I think I had two or three losing trades. I still had a little bit of discipline so I wouldn’t risk more than a 100, 120, $30 per trade. And then the coronavirus news started picking up and the market had its first deep and the guy who I was following, he put an SGY long trade at the first deep. I followed that and he never put an exit trade on that. I still did, I don’t know when he exited and I was disciplined enough that if I took a trade my-
Clay: Just to understand, but this part of the service was he was supposed to be telling you when to exit and stuff like that too?
Amit: He used to put his exists. So I would assume that he will tell if he gets stopped out or something.
Clay: But on that one he never commented on exiting the trader or anything?
Amit: No, he never did. Nothing.
Clay: Full disclosure, Amit and I we’re speculating, but yes the coronavirus caused the markets to dip. But if he was going long in the first dip that was not the only dip to come. It went way lower than there. So to hear that he made some buy signal for the first dip and then to a miss point. Yeah. I don’t know whatever happened with that trade because he never made any other comments about it.
Clay: Yeah, I think everybody can read between the lines on what happened there. And you got to be very careful with a service that says, “Hey, listen, we’ll tell you everything you need to do. All you do is just pay us. And it’s that easy.” And to Amit’s point, when things are going fine and when things are going great, well yeah, those sorts of services are going to work. But I mean, here’s the other thing that would work. You just doing it on your own anyways because before the coronavirus showed up, I mean, it was literally the market just grinding higher and higher and higher. And you could have thrown a dart and still made money.
Clay: But this is why, and I know Amit’s fully on board with this now. You got to learn to be able to think for yourself, you got to be more flexible because, I mean, think about how scary that actually is for somebody that’s putting all their trust into this person. They give a buy and then you’re thinking, “Okay, what am I supposed to do? Okay. Nothing’s happening. Okay. I don’t hear anything. Okay. Why isn’t, there’s no emails, there’s no text messages. Well, what, Oh wow. Now things got even worse. Hey, what am I supposed to be doing?” And then there’s just silence.
Clay: I mean, think about how helpless that is. That’s a terrifying situation. If you were fully dependent on somebody else, this is why I preach. I don’t want you to be fully dependent on me. I want you to be dependent on me to teach you how to become independent of me because you know how to use the tools and build strategies, but that’s a scary situation, to think that some people are probably still just, they’ve lost a whole bunch and they never got any guidance after that. But anyways. Well that makes good sense then and how you would just say, “Yeah. Okay. Well, coronavirus showed up, the markets no longer are just going straight up. They’re actually getting a little bit more turbulent here.” So I’m assuming you’re no longer part of that service?
Amit: No. I don’t look at those. They send their notifications through Twitter and they sent so many that I turned off Twitter notifications on that. I only want to spend that mental energy looking at the trade and thinking why is he putting that trade or none of that.
Clay: Did they have a website?
Amit: Yes.
Clay: Okay. And yet they would still send out everything through Twitter?
Amit: Yeah. They don’t have a good technology framework for messaging.
Clay: Yeah. I mean in hindsight, do you see how sketchy that all was now Amit?
Amit: Oh, yes. Absolutely.
Clay: I mean to have a website but not to have the infrastructure to even sense where you have to use… Okay. Well hopefully you could all see-
Amit: I’m a programmer. So I completely see what’s going on there because I exactly understand what’s involved in setting up messaging platforms and all those kinds of things. So, yep.
Clay: First off, I’m not judging you. I thank you. I laugh, I chuckle because we’ve all done things where we look back and say, “What was I thinking?” But I thank you for sharing that because that’s a great learning lesson is sometimes… I mean think about Amit’s a programmer, but sometimes as obvious as some things should be, the human mind is a bizarre place and you can just almost overlook things that are staring at you in plain sight. So I mean, thank you for sharing that because that’s a great example of just how crazy the human psyche is. And sometimes it doesn’t make any sense. It’s bizarre. But that’s why you got to be aware of it and you can at least try to make the most sense of it.
Clay: All right. Well you decided that you’re going to officially stop trading, so we’ll bring it back up to that point. You said, “I do want to stop trading.” And then you start to go through the education and then you realize, “Okay, there’s quite a bit of stuff here.” And you were talking about with your son that you got. Basically, you had to figure out how to delegate your time. So pick it back up from that point after you made the decision. “Yeah, I’m done with swing trading right now with the real money.”
Amit: Yep. Exactly. So then I started studying, I went to the robotic training. Oh, I don’t know, can I talk about the modules in the training Clay or should I…
Clay: Yeah, yeah, that’s fine. I mean, if somebody is going to go and try to take what you talk about verbally and… I mean, if you’re more than welcome to do that as a listener, but don’t come crying to me when you start like, “Well, I head that Amit guy say something. And I think I understood, but…” Listen, so yeah, talk about it. Go ahead. You can go through the modules, that’s totally fine.
Amit: Yeah. So I did the robotic training. I skipped the candlesticks part. I knew what that is, so I wasn’t going to go through that, but so yeah. I did that part. That part was okay. I glanced over, but when I went to the skill sharpening, I do want to bring this up to you because to me it was invaluable because I knew what candlesticks were, I knew technical indicators but when I went through hours and hours of you going through those charts and looking at those and thinking through those. That’s when I realized, that, yeah, unless I took the course, there’s no one or nothing that can teach you how to look at the charts and think from that point of view, and that was very valuable to me.
Clay: Thank you for sharing that. And to give a little context here because it’s crazy how sometimes the simplest things are the most effective and you’re not the first to tell me that at all. I mean, a lot of people, in fact, it’s kind of a running joke is, did you print out the study guides? Because people that print them out and the people that go through that class the way it should be gone through. I mean that’s really, I’m not saying it’s guaranteeing anybody’s success, but that’s really going to set you up for just how well you understand things or not. But the way it works is nothing fancy. There’s a study guides that cover trends and then candlesticks and supports, and resistance and candlesticks. So you print out the guides and it’s supposed to give you the feeling like I’m sitting right next to you.
Clay: So I’ll say, “All right, we’re on this chart.” And then I’ll start asking you questions and I’ll say, “All right, now pause the video and come back when you’re ready.” So then I don’t say anything. So you can give everybody a chance to pause the video and then yeah, you go through it and like Amit said, you got to think about it. You got to look, “Okay. Clay’s asking this, he’s saying that.” And then you got to document things. You mark things up and then you unpause the video and I say, “Okay, this is what I see, or this is what you should be seeing. Or this is what I was getting at.” And it’s a way for you to almost have me looking over your shoulder and just taking it one example at a time, and the study guides are vast.
Clay: My goal with that is at the end, I want you to be like, “Clay, I can’t stand your voice. You’re just, ah!” That’s my goal. Because when you get to the point where it’s just you’re filling in my sentences for me and you know what I’m going to be asking before I even ask it and you know how to answer it before I even really ask it. Think about that. That means you got it. You know it inside and out when you can fill in my sentences before I even finish them. So yes, it can be a little long, it can be a little just beating the dead horse over and over again. But would you agree, Amit that that’s really what it takes to really start to develop your chart vision the way it needs to be?
Amit: Yeah, that’s exactly what it takes. Yeah. You just got to go to chart after chart, after chart of different patterns, different timeframe. All of that is very relevant as long as they can look at a chart and have something, have some opinion rather than, “What in detail do I look at now?”
Clay: Yeah, absolutely. So good. I’m glad that you shared that. And now I also want to add in more context that Amit has been attending the webinars and I’ve gotten on your case a couple of times, haven’t I? I mean graham numbers, you know what you-
Amit: Oh, my son loves that.
Clay: You know what a graham number though is now, right?
Amit: Oh yeah.
Clay: Okay. I gave you a homework assignment on it. If I remember, didn’t I assigned you to go learn about graham numbers at some point?
Amit: Yup.
Clay: All right. Yeah. I like to give Amit a hard time, not a hard time, but he shows up and he gives his answers and he takes it the way it’s supposed to be taken. I’m just trying to help him, trying to get him better. But yes, I do remember Amit saying, “Oh man, you need to go homework assignment.” But I’m glad that you’ve been doing them and maybe I’ll get on your case later tonight.
Clay: All right, well, I mean, where are you within your education right now? You’ve gone through robotic, you’ve gone through skill sharpening and I mean, have you gone through the other class? So I guess where were you currently at within the landscape of the overall program?
Amit: There are a couple of things that I have not gone through. Volcanic Trading, the penny stock guide and the case studies of all the options strategies.
Clay: So you’ve gone through quite a bit then. If those are the only things that you haven’t gone through. I mean, those are just optional courses anyways. No pun intended, has nothing to do… The way it works is you go through core classes and then after the five core classes, for example, if you want to learn about options trading, then there’s classes for that, or if you want to learn about Forex, there’s a Forex class. So you’ve been through quite a bit then.
Amit: Yeah. Now I’m at a point where I have gone through everything, so I understand the heart of it, the gist of it and now it’s a matter of executing the whole thing and trying to find my own foot in the market. That’s where I’m at now.
Clay: Okay. So what have you been working on then? Are you still using Thinkorswim to do your paper trading?
Amit: Yeah, yeah. I’m still using Thinkorswim for… So there’s one big adjustment that I made as I progressed over last two or three weeks. What I was doing is, I was doing swing trading in my real account with very small position size of five shares or two or three shares. And then I was doing the day trade in Thinkorswim paper trading. But it’s a painful experience to keep switching between the two platforms. And now I am completely in paper trading and everything is just paper trade and what I’m focusing on now is scans, and going through the charts and building some opinion and then trying to trade from there.
Clay: And are you more focused, I mean is this all being done via a swing trading approach or are you doing it more from a day trading approach?
Amit: Right now I’m doing both but it’s going to be driven a lot by my job and what they do over there because right now I’m working remote so I have a computer at home and I can do whatever I want on that. But as soon as my office opens up and I go back there, it’s a very restrictive environment there, and I don’t know if they’ll give me a laptop with internet where I can day trade or if I’ll be able obligated to swing trading. I do not know that right now.
Clay: That makes good sense. Now for listener’s sake, especially if you’re listening to this in the archive right now, we’re going through the coronavirus quarantine, whole economy is shut down. So when Amit is saying that he doesn’t quite understand, well, I mean given that it’s a worldwide thing right now you know what he’s going through where there’s this uncertainty and he’s not quite sure how it’s going to work.
Clay: Let me just throw out a couple of scenarios. Let’s say that it would be a situation where you can’t have a laptop. So I mean day trading is just not going to be a possibility at all. Are you open to potentially doing some futures trading since that market is open essentially around the clock?
Amit: That is exactly what I have been thinking. And the only question or dilemma is right now since I’m focusing so much on my chart vision and scans and all, should I practice and get better at that, or should I try to learn one more thing of futures and then try to take that? I’m not too sure what I should do. Any input would be appreciated.
Clay: No. Right now it sounds like, because you understand a chart is a chart, is a chart whether you’re trading Bitcoin or options or futures or Forex or just stocks. I mean a chart just mapping out, a chart’s telling the story about how values are changing over time. And it sounds like that’s what you’re mainly locked in right now. It’s just, I like how you said it, you’re forming opinions about a stock. Right now, sure it’s a stock, but I mean it could be anything. It could be you’re forming an opinion about baseball cards or a piece of art because that’s all a chart is. And as long as something’s got a value and that value changes over time, then technical analysis, the use of charts can be applied.
Clay: So I would say just keep on working through that right now because the last thing you want is maybe the other thing happens. Maybe your work is like, “Yeah, you can have a laptop. Yeah, you can do this.” And now all of a sudden you’re like, “Well, I can’t believe I spent all that time learning about futures and now I don’t even need to learn futures. I don’t need futures because I can do it at work.” So I would just say focus on what you’re doing right now with just understanding the story that the chart’s telling you, forming opinions and then seeing how those opinions play out. And then once the uncertainty dwindles away a little bit, you have a better idea of where you should be starting to put more of your time. Does that make sense?
Amit: Yup. I totally agree with that. I see what you mean.
Clay: So, I mean, at this point I would say pretty much just keep on doing what you’re doing, which brings me to my next question. In forming opinions, I mean, have you started to stumble upon any patterns you like to see or any strategies you like? I mean, do you notice that you’re getting certain things right and then all of a sudden it seems like you’re getting other things wrong all the time? Or, I mean, I guess where’s your confidence level at right now? I mean, how do you think you’re doing in your ‘Opinion forming’ about the stocks that you’ve been practicing with?
Amit: I would say somewhere between a little above medium is what I would say. Because what’s going on with me is I get stopped out a lot and then the market does go into my direction but one wrong tick, or one long tick would come in the wrong direction and kick me out of the trade and then it does end up going in that direction.
Clay: Okay, good. Are you open to some more feedback?
Amit: Sorry, what’d you say?
Clay: Are you open to some more feedback?
Amit: Yes, yes. Oh, yes. Please.
Clay: Okay, so you’re getting stopped out and then it goes in your favor. So in other words, you’re right, from an overarching standpoint. Your opinion is right from a broad sense, but you’re wrong with your stop-loss placement. Let me ask this. Do you know how much you’d be willing to risk in a trade from a monetary perspective?
Amit: Yes. Right now I’m risking no more than $40 on a trade.
Clay: Okay? So $40 is what you would want. Now this is still just demo trading, right? Or is this real money trading?
Amit: Demo trading.
Clay: Okay. So $40 is the number. So what I would tell you to do is you need to widen up those stop-losses. You need to give yourself more wiggle room. Now if you keep share size the exact same, you could very well be losing more than $40. Do you follow so far?
Amit: Yup.
Clay: So the way you manipulate that though is you now need to lower your share size down a little bit. That way your position sizes get smaller. But because you’re giving your stop losses more room, all the risk will stay the same. You’re just manipulating the math. Do you understand how that works together?
Amit: Yup.
Clay: So that is what I would recommend is if you are finding yourself, like you said, “I’m right, it goes in my favor from a macro perspective, my opinion is actually really good, but I keep getting stopped out right before it happens.” Okay, good. That’s a step in the right direction. Give yourself more room on the stop losses and just lower down your position size. I think that would do you well, is that something that sounds like could potentially help you out?
Amit: That could help me out quite a bit. Yeah, that’s one thing. And another thing that I’m doing is I’m trying to find stocks from all these [inaudible 00:49:13] and other free scanners with the strategies that you describe in the training material and then try to find and day trade with stocks that don’t move as much. Because yes, the gains are going to be lower on those and I also see they’re drooling at the charts for a little bit longer. But then my loss is a little bit controlled and the whole environment feels a little bit more in control rather than big movers like Zoom or something where, you’re stopped out before you know, or you lost three times more before you can actually get out.
Clay: Right. Are you ideally looking for slower movers then it sounds like?
Amit: Yeah, a little bit and it’s a learning experience. I wasn’t sure before last three days, but last few days I experimented with that and I find it’s a little bit more appealing in terms of how I’m trading, at least for now.
Clay: That makes perfect sense. That is very, very wise. I can only chuckle in a oh my goodness type of way when are like, “Yeah, I just started trading two weeks ago. Yeah, I trade Tesla.” It’s like, okay, well you just… Or, I don’t even think Priceline’s around it anymore. But I remember Priceline would be crazy movers, so I would say, yeah stick with the… I mean really what you can do is you don’t necessarily need to run scans all the time. So for example, off the top of my head, I mean you could just look at AT&T. So ticker symbol T, slow mover. You could look at Pfizer, so PFE [inaudible 00:50:57].
Clay: Let’s just do this. I mean you could find five stocks that you would deem you feel comfortable with the slower movers and you can just watch those over and over every day. I mean, what timeframe are you using when you’re practicing? Are you using like a two minute and a five minute. What timeframe are you watching these stocks play out in?
Amit: Five minutes.
Clay: Okay. So I mean you could watch AT&T and four or five other stocks all day every day in five minute candles. That’s going to give you plenty of patterns, that’s going to give you plenty of stuff. So I guess my point is I wouldn’t even worry about scanning for stuff because if your goal right now is just to develop opinions then I mean, for me, I rarely run scans because I know every day right now I’m probably going to be trading Boeing and Roku and Zoom and a couple of other ones, which now for you that would be way too volatile.
Clay: But my point is, is that you reach a point where, especially from a day trading standpoint, you don’t even need to scan for stuff. You just check the… And you just get to know what stocks seem to be active each and every day. And then you just watch those stocks over and over again. Especially from a day trading standpoint. Like I said, five minute candles that’s going to give you so much data and that’s going to give you so much things that you can look at within the course of just a single day. Does that make sense?
Amit: I’m glad you mentioned that because that is what I was feeling that I could just trade one stock or two stocks every day and that’ll be fine. But then everyone scans and everyone has these lists, so maybe there is some magical thing about having more stocks, but yeah. Now that you mentioned, absolutely, it makes sense.
Clay: Yeah. I mean, I know and not that I’ve ever worked on Wall Street or been an investment trader, but I mean if you go to work as a Wall Street trader, you don’t get in there with I don’t know, the Goldman Sachs. And they’re just like, “Hey, there you go. Trade away. We’re just going to start to throw any random stock at you.” No. They’re going to say, “No, you’re going to become a specialist in, and I don’t know the exact amounts, but I mean investment bankers and that Wall Street trading, you don’t just go in there guns ablaze and work for Goldman Sachs and, they’re just going to start to throw random tickers at you every single day. They’re going to get you really good at certain ticker symbols because all ticker symbols as we’ve talked about before have personalities that you can get to know.
Clay: Because all stocks, they behave in certain ways and I’ve been getting to know Boeing very, very well over the past, I don’t know, basically month, month and a half. And I know it’s personality now. Sure, I’ll still take losses on it every now and then. It’s not like it’s perfect, but to your point Amit yeah, there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with just focusing on… I’d say maybe find five that you find that you would fit your comfort level in terms of the speed at which they move. And then that way every day you can just flip through them all because sometimes you might be watching one and you might be saying there’s absolutely nothing going on right now. All right, let’s see what’s going on with something else.
Clay: So yeah, three to five, I think that would do you very, very well to just sit back and watch and trade the same things over and over again. And then you’ll notice at some point you’re going to be like, “Oh, this is way too slow.” I mean, “This is so boring.” Okay. Then at that point find something that’s a little bit faster. And then I was thinking like, “Whoa, okay, all right, this is better.” Because all you’re doing is you’re prepping your brain to be able to think faster and faster and faster in regards to stocks that are very volatile. And before you know it, I mean, you’re going to be looking at Boeing saying, “Oh yeah, it moves fast, but it doesn’t move that fast.” Because your chart vision will have been built up slowly but surely over time. So, I mean that’s what I would recommend doing given what you’ve said so far. So hopefully all that make sense that at least a little bit to you.
Amit: Yup. Yup. That makes perfect sense. Thanks for that.
Clay: Good, good. And also, if I were to sit next to you on your chart, what would I see? So I mean I guess walk me through, do you have lots of indicators or are you keeping it very basic, but what is your current technical chart and your set up all look like?
Amit: It’s very simplistic. I have one day, one year chart and a five, or 10-day five minute chart, with 10, 50 and 200 moving averages, and volume. On my intraday, I have VWAP. And that is about it.
Clay: Okay, good.
Amit: If I’m doing some scans, I might pull a Bollinger Band to see if something really over-extended or not, or I take it off because it’s just too much noise and it doesn’t let me read the candlesticks so well.
Clay: Yeah. I mean I’m not going to say that Bollinger Bands are worthless because they have their time and place, but it does also reach the point where I’m with you. It’s like, “I don’t know.” I got enough, a couple moving averages and the VWAP is enough for me. I don’t need even more lines with Bollinger Bands. But it sounds like I just wanted to make sure that you weren’t overwhelming yourself with a bunch of indicators and studies and all that. But it sounds like you’re already keeping it very simplistic, which is good because you don’t need to have all these bells and whistles when you get started. I mean let alone ever, I mean I’m not quite sure you ever need all these bells and whistles. I suppose that’s a case by case situation, but yeah, for where you are in your learning journey, good to know that you’re not overwhelming yourself.
Clay: I guess as we wrap things up here, as we’re coming up on right around an hour. Do you have any timeframe where I want to be trading with real money by this date or are you just going at your own pace, I guess? Do you have any bigger picture goals or timelines or how does all that looking for you right now?
Amit: Actually I do. And so all of this started in the beginning of this year, around mid-January or end-January, somewhere like that. And the goal is if I can trade full time in about three years from now and between my wife’s salary and my salary, if we can survive the plans are, to do full time trading, move to Florida, quit New Jersey. So that’s like the bigger level, big picture goals and ideally if by the end of this year I can start trading with real money then that’ll be good.
Clay: I’ve got to be honest, I was getting nervous there when you said, “Yeah, I want to be a full time trader.” And then I heard the word three and I’m saying, “Oh, please don’t say three weeks from now, please don’t say three weeks from now.” But three years. Hey, you know what? There’s no such thing as a guarantee in the market, but I can definitely say you’re being more than reasonable, you’re being more than fair with that timeframe. So, I didn’t want to have to rain on your parade by telling you, “Yeah, Amit you’re probably not going to be a full time trader in three weeks from now.” But all right. Three years. Yeah. You can work with that. And I would say that’s definitely realistic.
Clay: Why Florida? I know way back when you mentioned just get out of the cold weather. Is Florida just solely from a weather point of view?
Amit: Weather point of view and yeah, just slow down a little bit. Yeah. The biggest thing is get away from the cold weather.
Clay: And New Jersey. I don’t know if it’s as bad as Michigan, but-
Amit: [crosstalk 00:58:54].
Clay: …regardless, I understand you. That’s good motivation right there and well, good. I’m glad it’s by no means and I guess look at it this way, I would assume that you have a good solid paying job. I mean, you’re a programmer. That’s a great, great skill to have. Obviously a very in demand job. So I mean, you’re not even under any pressure, I guess is what I’m really getting at. Is that an accurate statement? You’re not feeling any pressure where you don’t have any money coming in or anything like that? I mean, you have income coming into your situation, right?
Amit: Oh, yeah. Money-wise, we’re good. Between me and my wife, yeah, money is not an issue at all. What is an issue is, we did our math and we figured out what our expenses are and be able to do that with me trading and my wife working as a programmer, that’s the challenge that we are looking forward and getting a little bit scared of.
Clay: Because you want to maintain your current standard of living then?
Amit: To be honest, I don’t have any fancy [inaudible 01:00:09].
Clay: Come on Amit, you’re going to have to sell your two Lamborghinis, okay? You’re probably just going to have to give those up. I mean, you computer programmers are just rolling in the dough.
Amit: I ride a bicycle to work. I have a four mile commute and I either run to my work and run back home or ride a bicycle to my work.
Clay: That’s awesome. You run four miles to work or, I mean biking, still impressive but running four miles. That’s some good stuff right there. But yeah, I can see where you’re coming from. But again, it goes back to the, I guess my too… I’m trying to encourage you, maybe I’m failing miserably, but you’re in no rush. You have great income right now and that’s fantastic. So you don’t have to any rush and you’re also being more than realistic with yourself if you’re saying three years. But that is definitely within the realm of total possibility. So I mean at least you’re approaching all this in, like I said, a very non-stressful way because you have the income and you’re approaching it in a very logical manner. So that’s where you want to be, I guess is what I’m getting at.
Clay: I mean, was there anything else that you wanted to throw in here as, I mean, we’re coming right up on the hour mark, which is right, I want to cut you off if you had anything else you wanted to add before we start to wrap things up.
Amit: No, no. We can start wrapping it up. It’s a good chat. I really enjoyed it.
Clay: Well, I want to make sure that you don’t have any brilliant nuggets of philosophy or wisdom that you wanted to share. Do you feel good in that regard?
Amit: Well, I really want to thank you for one more thing then. I took a dual benefit out of the study material because I studied everything that was technical trading part of it and my wife studied the grow rich part of it. And you know how the markets [inaudible 01:02:10] and then when they were at the 212 to 230 levels that first I was. She studied all of-
Clay: Oh yeah.
Amit: So we’ve got some good deals and my wife used the grow rich program and she did find some good dividend stocks and we got it at a good price.
Clay: Tell me one, I got to know just one. Because listeners we’re not given any of the special sauce away because they’ll have no idea why it was actually a good stock. But I got to hear. This is good stuff. What is one of the stocks your wife found?
Amit: We put around 24 grand because we had nothing in IRA. So last year and this year’s IRA, we put all of that in and there’s about 24 to 30 stocks that she put in there.
Clay: Oh nice. So she spread around the risk big time then. Good diversification.
Amit: Oh shit. I was impressed. ABBV, Carvana, there’s a lot of them.
Clay: Yeah. Well, good. It sounds like ABBV, I own that one myself. That’s definitely a great buy. But, well hopefully your wife isn’t too annoyed with me. I mean I guess she only went through one class, so that’s good. She only had to put up with me for a single class and it sounds like it’s safe to say she enjoyed the grow rich and that whole entire class then?
Amit: Oh yeah, she was arguing and now she agrees with me that the program was worth it.
Clay: Well, okay, well good. Shout out to Amit’s wife. I thank you for trusting Amit to make a good decision and now you’re fully on board. So that’s what I like to hear. But again, good on you Amit for not getting sneaky and not doing anything behind anybody’s back. But all right, well Amit if I were to lend you the time machine and you could take the time machine back to the start of all this and give yourself one bit of advice, what would that bit of advice be?
Amit: Yeah. Just buy the material, either yours or whatever, but invest in good education. Otherwise, from a learning point of view, coronavirus and [inaudible 01:04:19] markets are the best times to learn getting in the market.
Clay: It’s scary when there’s negativity everywhere and there’s headlines that are, end of the world. But yes, you’re absolutely right. Usually when it’s scary, usually when everybody’s proclaiming the end of the world, that’s when it’s, to your point, that’s when you should be starting to make moves and starting to put some putting some goals into action and all that. So I fully agree with that. All right, well we’re going to do some fun stuff here because I want to learn a little bit more about you Amit. But what is your favorite movie?
Amit: Oh man, I knew that one was going to… So after my son was born I haven’t seen any full movies but all of my movies were before that. And I would say one of those Wolverine movies, would be my favorite one.
Clay: You like the Wolverine movies. Okay, all right.
Amit: Cheesy but…
Clay: I’m all for Hugh Jackman. I mean he’s like my man crush. So I mean Hugh Jackman, I mean Wolverine. That’s no shame there though. Those were some good movies. What about food-wise? What do you like to eat in New Jersey?
Amit: Pretty simple food. Fruits and veggies.
Clay: I guess that makes sense because if you’re running four miles to work and then four miles home, I mean, I’m not a mathematical genius, but that’s eight miles in one day of running. So yeah, it doesn’t surprise me that you’re probably eat a relatively healthy diet then if your favorite foods are fruits and veggies.
Amit: Yeah, bananas, apples.
Clay: Okay. But this is not fun. I mean, it’s totally healthy. That’s great. You’re filling your body with all sorts of vitamins and nutrients. But I mean, if you’re going to break a rule and if you’re going to get something just greasy or something, I don’t know. Sugary.
Amit: Chocolate chip cookies.
Clay: There we go. All right. Chocolate chip cookies, I can get. Amit, hopefully someday we can eat some chocolate chip cookies together. That would be a great time and while we look at your portfolio that your wife is, what sounds to be beautifully constructed. So that’ll be a good time. And then afterwards, don’t worry, we’ll eat some fruits and veggies. Does that sound like a plan?
Amit: My uncle lives in Troy, Michigan.
Clay: Oh really? Okay. That’s on the other side of the state. But okay. That’s a small world. The world continues to get smaller. Have you ever been to Michigan?
Amit: Oh yeah. I drive there quite a bit. Mostly around Christmas time, with the family gathering and all.
Clay: Okay. Nice. I’ve been slacking on it but I’d like to try to do some Michigan meetup. But not that’s necessarily close to you.
Amit: I hope [inaudible 01:07:07].
Clay: But, yeah. Because we do have a lot of people in the Midwest and we have a lot of people in Michigan anyway, but I don’t know, those take so many logistics, but that’s besides the point. And then final question here. Three words, and these three words need to be what you would associate with a successful trader or what it takes to be successful. So what would those three words be?
Amit: Don’t be greedy. The term don’t be greedy. Yeah, three words, don’t be greedy. Hello? [inaudible 01:08:02].
Amit: (silence).
Clay: Amit are you still there?
Amit: Yes [crosstalk 01:08:11].
Clay: Yeah. Sorry. I totally forgot that I still had myself on mute. So I’m just sitting here talking and talking and talking. You should have said, “Hey, where’d you go? You’re on mute. You bozo.” But that’s all right. Well, anyways three words and these three words need to be what you would associate with a successful trader. So what would those three words be? Oh wait, I already asked you that, didn’t I?
Amit: Yeah, you asked me. I said, don’t be greedy. [inaudible 01:08:38].
Clay: Don’t be greedy. And then, oh I remember what I was asking you. The whole mute thing threw me off. I was asking, would you come back at some point in the future? Because you’ve left off at a great cliffhanger here. So are you willing and would you be willing to come back at some point?
Amit: Oh, absolutely. I never thought you would invite me because I’m not that active in the chat room because I’m always either with my kid and with the whole homeschooling, I’m with him trying to teach him and work and trading so, I thought you would never invite me. It’s great to be here.
Clay: I mean I’m a jerk but I’m not that big of a jerk. All welcome to be here. I mean I don’t care about… And anything you don’t need to have any sort of special requirements other than just to keep it real, which you did. And my favorite part about all this was you’re a very successful programmer yet somehow you didn’t realize that somebody that has a website but needs Twitter to send out alerts, you just somehow lost track of that and you didn’t quite make that connection. So like I said, that just was a beautiful illustration of how crazy the human mind is. So I appreciate that. But Amit well, you know that I got to get moving so that I can get something set up for the webinar here in just a little bit, but Amit thank you again very much for hanging out.
Amit: Thank you for inviting me. It was great.
Clay: And I look forward to eating those chocolate chip cookies at some point. Now before you listeners, before you go, final few things. If you’re listening on iTunes or any other podcast players, be sure to subscribe and that way you can just be reminded of one new episodes and new content is released. Oh, especially on iTunes though. Before I forget that if you’d leave us a rating or a better yet a written review that really goes a long way. Helps us out quite a bit and I would greatly appreciate it. If you are listening though @claytrader.com on the show notes page, then leave us a, there’s a little chat box there. Feel free to reach out. Always love to hear from people that start off the message saying, “Hey, I listened to the podcast.” And then you go into your constructive criticism or suggestions or feedback or questions, whatever you have, I love to hear from you. So reach out in that way.
Clay: But all in all, either way, I really do appreciate your support as a listener. Thank you again Amit, and we’ll see you all back next week.
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