Transcript

Clay: This is the Stock Trading Reality Podcast, Episode 279.
Announcer: This is the Stock Trading Reality Podcast where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by every day, normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success. This is your host. Need a show to watch? He recommends Downton Abbey. Clay Trader.
Clay: You really can’t make this stuff up. I promise this was not arranged as far as the fun fact is concerned. The way it works is I record a whole bunch of them. Excuse me, I list out a whole bunch of them. We send them over to the voiceover guy and they’re just in a list. I make the logistics easier, I just go down the list and whatever I guess happens to correspond, that’s just all kind of random. Here we have Downton Abbey which is a British show. It’s based over in England and I’ll get to it in a second. Then our guest today is English so he’s got the accent and everything. I always do these fun facts afterwards. So, I’d see how this worked out. You just can’t make this stuff up. Good, good stuff.
Clay: We have the fun fact dealing with an English show and we have a guest who grew up in England… Granted he lives in New York City now. As far as the show… Maybe you’re thinking, “Wait a second. What Clay? Huh?” I thought the same thing, but when you have a former Cobra helicopter pilot recommend it to you, you have to take it seriously. My buddy who is, like I said, a former Cobra helicopter pilot; he was like, “Listen Clay. I know what you’re thinking. I thought the same thing but just try it. Just give it a try.”
Clay: I was like, “All right. Because you’re a former Cobra helicopter pilot and the government trusted you to operate hellfire missiles and massive machine guns on a piece of multimillion dollar equipment, okay John, I will listen.” John nailed it. The best thing is your wife or your girlfriend, they’ll like it too. I suppose if you’re a woman, try it for your husband. I bet he’ll like it. I don’t know how to describe it other than if you give it a try, there’s a lot of things going on. I liked it quite a bit.
Clay: Downton Abbey… It’s an older show. I think, there was what? Six seasons and then a movie, but if you’re looking for a show that both parties can watch, I would say, “Give it a try.” It gets intense. There’s some stuff where you’re like, “Oh wow. That’s a bummer.” I’ll just leave it at that. It’s back in the early 1900s. It’s from… Not the History Channel, PBS, I think, or BBC… One of those. It’s kind of a history show but it’s not a history show. Point is, is they put in history all throughout it. It starts off with the advent of electricity, and then the automobile, and then it goes through World War I. Then right now as the coronavirus is going around, it takes you through the Spanish Flu which happened back during that time period. All I can say is, “Give it a listen,”… Not give it a listen, “Give it a watch.” If you give it a few episodes, I’m willing to bet that you’re going to get sucked in and you’re going to want to keep on watching. Yeah, Downton Abbey, which is English.
Clay: Then like I said earlier, our guest today is from England. Andrew is his name. He goes by [Kaizan 00:03:30], [Kaizen 00:03:30]. We talked about it at the beginning, we’re not quite sure how you actually say it. If you’re a member of the community and you’re active in the chat room, I’m sure you’ve seen him in there. He’s a great guy. It was a great discussion. He’s made a fantastic journey from where he started. Which is relatively crazy to know that he became a day trader, used other people’s money but really had no idea what exactly was going on. I’ll get more into that.
Clay: Then from where he is now, you’ll notice he’s got a big schedule. What I found fascinating, he’s got an alarm that makes noise after 10 minutes. So, he’s not allowed to do anything until 10 minutes. He’s got that structure in place to literally the point… So, it’s not like, “Well, I don’t want to do anything for 10 minutes.” No, he means it. Alarm for 10 minutes. So, he’s gone big time from pretty much un-randomness to now a strategy that he’s putting into place and fine tuning right now that has come a long way. There’s also some great learning examples there. Maybe you’re somebody with a full-time job and you’re thinking, “Well, I’d love to be a day trader but I have a dot job and the stock market’s open during my hours.” This is an episode for you.
Clay: If that is you, if you are somebody that has a full-time job but you want to get more active in the markets, then please listen to the end because he was the exact same way. When he discovered some certain areas of the market, as he said, it was a quote, unquote, “game changer,” for him. So, definitely stick around. This is for sure the episode for you. Without further ado, let’s hear from our Englishman, Andrew. Andrew, welcome to the show.
Andrew: Hey, good morning Clay.
Clay: Now, you’re [Kaizen 00:05:16]? Is that what you’re…
Andrew: Maybe it’s [Kaizen 00:05:20]. I’ve never actually pronounced the word. So, it’s [Kaizen 00:05:23], or [Kaizan 00:05:23], or something like that. I think it means… It’s Japanese for continual improvement.
Clay: Oh, okay. I like that. I know that’s your name that you go by in the chat room. Wait, is it? Yeah.
Andrew: Yeah.
Clay: Okay. I also know when we’ve emailed it’s been Andrew.
Andrew: Yeah.
Clay: Let’s do this. Can I just call you Andrew? Because I don’t know, [Kaizan 00:05:45], [Kaizen 00:05:46], it’s probably going to come out so many different ways.
Andrew: Yeah, no problems man. That’s all good.
Clay: Okay. Just wanted to make sure that I’m not vastly offending you from the get-go of this thing but [crosstalk 00:05:55] I want to cover my bases. I love the accent. Where are you from?
Andrew: I’m originally from Leighton Buzzard in England. I live in New York City now. I’ve been in America for about 20 years.
Clay: People are supposed to lose their accent but you clearly haven’t. I mean, I love the accent. Is that a conscious effort on your part to not…?
Andrew: No.
Clay: Okay.
Andrew: When I go back sometimes I’ll say, “Tomato,” instead of “Tomato,” and then people give me a funny look. Yeah, on the whole this is the only voice I’ve got.
Clay: Okay. I’ve always wondered about that. For you new listeners, I promise we’ll get on topic here in a second. Sometimes my curiosity is peaked about things… To hear 20 years and no change. I like that response. “My voice… It is what it is.” Okay. Fair point. Well, I appreciate you first off volunteering to be here. I reached out. I just noticed, “Wait a second. Andrew hasn’t been on the podcast? He’s been in the community for a while.” He was like, “Yeah, sure.” I mean, just to give you context about the people that we have in the community, it is 6:30 A.M. when we’re recording this thing. That’s when it worked for Andrew. Hey, if that works for him, I’ll make it work for me. I thank you for being here and for just, like I said, doing this I assume before you have to do work. Is that where the 6:30 A.M. came from?
Andrew: Yeah, that is. Yeah. I’ve got to start work at 8:00 ish.
Clay: Okay.
Andrew: It’s 5:30 for you so I can’t complain.
Clay: No. We’re all in the Eastern time zone.
Andrew: All right.
Clay: Yeah. We’re on the very, very edge. Have you ever been to Michigan before?
Andrew: I don’t think so.
Clay: Okay.
Andrew: I’ve been to Chicago. That’s pretty close, right?
Clay: That is pretty close but that’s Central time. I bring up that because being on the very edge, in the summers it doesn’t get dark until like 10:00 here. It’s crazy during the peak of summers because we’re right on the edge of that timezone. Well, you’re in New York City which is New York standard time. Anyways. I feel like we could have a conversation about all sorts of things other than the markets but listeners are here for the market and I do want to hear more about your journey. I feel like you’re going to have a nice little twist to it because I know you did some other things first and now you’re getting yourself more so fully engulfed in the markets. Where did all this start for you? Where did you hear about the markets? What sort of dynamics played out that led you to the spot where you made that decision? I want to get a little bit more hands on with this.
Andrew: Yeah. It’s just going to sound wrong right off the get-go. It started with roulette. When I came to America, my ex-wife, her family lived near a big casino. I’d never been to one so I was just enthralled by it so I started learning all the games. Roulette, then I went to craps, and then to blackjack, and obviously gave all these up pretty quickly because you figured out they’re all losing games with negative expectations. Then I got into poker and I really got into Texas Hold’Em for a while. Then I was just playing at a card game with a friend and he said that he knew some people in New York who did day trading. I was living in Massachusetts at the time so he connected me with them and I drove down to New York City. These guys were running a proprietary day trading shop and so I interviewed with them. I said, “I like playing games,” and whatever. They said, “Yeah, come down and give it a crack.”
Andrew: I then moved to New York City and started to day trade. Essentially, I did that for eight months and I had no idea what I was doing. After eight months, I had to quit because I couldn’t make any money.
Clay: Did they provide you any training?
Andrew: I know, this is totally insane.
Clay: I would assume you were also trading with their money, right?
Andrew: Yeah, it was their money. The good news was at least I wasn’t losing money. I was able to defend myself but I just couldn’t make heads or tails of this thing. The complexity was just so beyond me. They sort of tried to train me or train us but it was kind of halfhearted. Now looking back as I’m going through your stuff, it was really nothing; and there’s no way that I should have been in that situation.
Clay: That couldn’t have been their money in the sense of out of their own pocket. They must have had some sort of private investors or something. To hear they were so, almost careless with that capital. I mean, it couldn’t have even been them. I mean, I don’t know, maybe it was a money laundering…
Andrew: No.
Clay: [crosstalk 00:11:02]. Is it legit?
Andrew: No, it was totally legit. I think they’re still in business now. Yeah. No, it was a trading floor and a bunch of kids with screens and stuff. As long as you weren’t blowing yourself up then they were making money off commissions. Of course, I was playing it like a video game so I was [inaudible 00:11:23] trading left, right, and center. Yeah. Yeah.
Clay: Now, I would assume that the structure was… In order for you to actually get a salary, you needed to be making money. Is that at the core how it was working?
Andrew: Yeah, definitely. You would do a draw down or whatever, you’d just take some money off the top. Over those eight months, I was never able to get successful so I was basically just bleeding out in New York City really, which was also very expensive.
Clay: That’s what I was going to say. From a trading standpoint, I mean, that’s kind of part of the journey. You’ve got to just get to break even at first, which is good. However, in your situation if you need the money, if your salary, if your payments are dependent on you actually making money; well then, break even, just like you said isn’t good enough. Especially when you factor in the overall context of New York City which… Yeah, isn’t it like $10 bucks for a hotdog there? I mean, I’ve never been there. Cheap cost of living… I’ll just put it this way, New York City doesn’t pop into my mind as on that list.
Andrew: Yeah. It was completely insane. I’ve never seen prices of rent that much before in my life. I mean, that’s the other thing. You’re not really seeing what you’re doing because there’s just stress about rent, or food, or whatever. Yeah, it was just doomed to failure. It was a good experience though and the people that I met were really cool and it was really fun. It really sort of burned itself into me. When I quit, I almost had to have my hand sort of teared off the keyboard because I was just so intense about hanging on to try to make it work. So, I always swore to myself that I was going to come back to trading at some point and figure out how to do this correctly.
Clay: That’s awesome. How long ago actually was this though?
Andrew: Dude, this was 2003.
Clay: Okay, okay. This is awhile ago then?
Andrew: Yeah.
Clay: Well, 2003… I guess, yeah. There was high speed internet and everything like that back at the time. Like I said, it’s not like the internet was brand, brand new or anything like that, but there have been many advances since even then in terms of trading technology and all that sort of stuff. You’ve seen a lot then, I guess, is what I’m getting at.
Andrew: I mean, sort of. I mean, because then I took a big hiatus really. From 2003 into 2014 I was just out of the markets. I wasn’t involved with money stuff in any shape or form. My life has had a lot of different things going on in it and there were other things that were just more of a priority. I went through a divorce, and I went through graduate school, and all sorts of different, crazy things were happening. So, there was a big drought between 2003 and then 2014, which is when I then got back in.
Clay: Before I forget, did you notice any differences though? You got out back in the early 2000s. You came back in 2014. Did it all pretty much seem the same… Technology wise that is?
Andrew: Um. It felt pretty similar to be honest.
Clay: Okay. I think you answered the question if you go, “Um…”
Andrew: Yeah, yeah. [crosstalk 00:14:58].
Clay: I feel like if it was glaringly… I’d just be like, “Oh yeah, there was a big difference.” I think that answered my question. Your hesitation in and of itself… There wasn’t that much. So, maybe trading technology hasn’t changed that much in terms of how things have progressed. That’d probably be a good thing then. That way things were pretty caught up all the way back then. What actually brought you back to the markets though? I get it. Life happens. There’s other stuff going on. Graduate school, like you said. What in 2014… Who pulled out the magnet and then sucked you back into the markets?
Andrew: Well, 2014… I know a lot of your other guests have probably said the same thing was around about the time of the first big marijuana bubble… 2013.
Clay: Ah, yes. That’s right. Pot stocks.
Andrew: Yeah, pot stocks.
Clay: Yes. 2013, 2014. Yup. Okay.
Andrew: Yeah. I mean, even though I’d done extended day trading, I was not a veteran. I was not experienced at all. I was just a newbie of a different color, different sorts, really. I found one company and I read a PR, and I was like, “Wow, this is going to be amazing. They’re going to make a ton of weed and I’m going to make a lot of money. It’s a penny stock so off we go to the moon.” Typical story, really.
Clay: Just to recap. I mean, did somebody bring about these marijuana stocks to you or did you just realize what was going on and your mind was like, “Hey, look. There’s news and stuff that are starting to come out about marijuana being more and more legalized. Oh, I bet there’s some money. Oh wait, I used to do stuff in the stock market. Let me go to the stock market.” Or did somebody actually give you a stock pick? I mean, was it one of those things? That you just came up with all this on your own or did somebody push you back in?
Andrew: No, no. Back then I was more of a smoker, I guess. I was just into that commodity anyway. Then I was just watching the legalization process.
Clay: Okay.
Andrew: I was like, “Oh wow. This looks like this could be making a ton of money because it’s a whole new market opening up.” I think the first one I got into was even worse than where I ended up. It was just MJ&A and it was simply because [crosstalk 00:17:17].
Clay: Ah, yes. That thing was a monster though. That thing went on some moves.
Andrew: Yeah. I just didn’t have the awareness to capitalize on any moves. I got into it because it just said marijuana in the title which is not…
Clay: [crosstalk 00:17:33]. Hey. I mean, that’s some Warren Buffet due diligence right there. I mean, that is the research upon research. Maybe that’s the Holy Grail strategy. Just, “I want to invest in corn. Okay. Let me find any company that’s got corn in the…” Okay. Did you find MJ&A through social media or message boards, or did you just literally pull up something on Yahoo! Finance and you went through and like, “Oh, they’re a marijuana company. I’m buying.” I mean, what was your strategy to find that stock at the time?
Andrew: Yeah. It was just literally a Google search. That stock went against me and then it came back up and I got out. I was like, “All right. I can’t do that again.” Then I found another one which was called FITX. At least they had on their Facebook page, they had diggers going around and they’re putting up buildings and fences. “This is going to be the grow room,” and all that sort of stuff. I can’t say whether that company was illegitimate or not but it looked legitimate to me. So, then I got invested in that and it went up. Then I remember listening to… They gave, I don’t know what you’d call it, a speech to the shareholders or whatever. I remember listening to that talk that they gave and I was like, “God, these guys don’t know what they’re talking about. They’re idiots.”
Clay: No. Penny stock company management. Idiots? No. Come on.
Andrew: So, I had this real strong intuition that I should sell but I just held on. I didn’t know how to valuate my thoughts. Yeah. That company then ran into some legal troubles with permits or whatever and ended up tanking. Eventually it went to a no bid situation and a ticket change situation. I still have some of those shares sitting in my portfolio as it were. You never know. I’m wondering if it will go on another reincarnation, you know?
Clay: Yeah. Who knows? I mean, I don’t know. I’m surprised they’re not in the coronavirus space right now knowing these penny stocks. You would think more of them would be becoming coronavirus companies all of a sudden. I guess, MJ&A, FITX, in either of those did you have the opportunity to make money?
Andrew: Did I have the opportunity? Yes, but I didn’t take the opportunity. I just held on. I think that’s one of the problems that investors have, or people that have that investing mindset, is that you just don’t know when to sell. You know?
Clay: Yep. I bring that up because both of those stocks, they made huge moves, if I remember right. I know MJ&A for sure did and I feel like FITX did also.
Andrew: Yeah, it did. [crosstalk 00:20:48]. Yeah.
Clay: Were you part of any of those big moves or were you one of the stragglers that were getting in after these movements had already occurred?
Andrew: I mean, I was definitely in on the FITX move but I was like, “Yeah, this will just go higher. This is just the beginning.” You know?
Clay: Right, right. At that time, when you thought of the word, “sell,” sell your positions; I would assume that you equated sell with, “Oh, that means you sell everything.”
Andrew: Yeah, definitely.
Clay: To you as a listener, if you’re a beginner, new, just realize… Because I did the same thing as Andrew just admitted. He had the same thought process. You heard the word, well, “sell,” and you think, “Well, that means you sell everything.” Well, no. As traders, as investors, a very foundational money management tactic is, “Well, you don’t have to sell everything.” To keep the math easy, let’s say you have 100 shares, “sell” does not mean you have to sell 100 shares. You could just sell 25, you could sell 50. You could sell whatever you want and when you do that, at least you’re removing some of your risk, you’re putting some profit into your pocket. That way you can still, like I said, take some profit but also keep yourself in the game.
Clay: I don’t blame Andrew for not selling. I mean, it makes sense not to sell. When the thing has skyrocketed and skyrocketed, well why not think it will skyrocket some more? Yeah. That’s under the premise of sell means you sell everything. If you do it under the premise of, “Well, you could do a partial sell,” well then yeah, that is probably the way to go. Probably if you knew what you know now, I’m assuming you would have probably at least taken a partial and just sold a portion of those shares.
Andrew: Yeah, definitely. Absolutely.
Clay: Yeah, it’s just one of those little, small things. When you’re new and just getting started, when you don’t know what you don’t know… You would think, “Well, of course sell doesn’t mean you have to sell everything.” Really, as a listener, be honest with yourself. Maybe if you’re brand new what did you think when I asked Andrew that? Were you thinking, “Yeah, sell means sell everything.”? So, it’s just one of those small, little things that makes actually a pretty big difference. All right. Well, how long were you down in these penny stocks? How many more of them did you go before…
Andrew: All right. I mean, I think this might be one of the reasons why I was reluctant to come on your show because I think I have a bit of shame in the sense that I’m still in them. I’ll get to that. I guess I’m into it in a different way, and it may not be smart, but this is just where I’m at. After that, I took a break I guess. Then somehow I found you probably on YouTube but I don’t really remember. Then I remember I signed up for the chat room because at this point I just didn’t really trust myself. I’d blown myself up in two different situations and I was like, “All right.” I still had the desire to do this but I just need to go super, super slow now because I’m an idiot.
Clay: What year was all this happening in? You said you stepped away again.
Andrew: I mean, what is it? I don’t know maybe 2017.
Clay: Yeah, okay. I was going to guess ’18. Yeah, so that sounds about right then.
Andrew: Yeah.
Clay: 2017 when you would have joined the community. Okay.
Andrew: Yeah, something like that. I started with just the chat room subscription because that was the least amount of risk. Might be the first time I actually displayed any intelligence around risk and so that was cool. Then I didn’t go all in on the TFP or CTU subscription right from the get-go and I knew I wasn’t getting the most bang for my buck but again, I just didn’t trust myself. So, I was like, “All right. I’m going to do the Penny Stock course first,” which was great and really eye opening. Then I think I did Robotic. I might have bought three or maybe four just individual courses. Then I was like, “All right. This is great. This guy is great. There’s real integrity here so I’m going to go all in and just pay for the lifetime subscription.” Yeah.
Clay: For the listener’s sake if you go to the site now, you’re all going to be like, “Hey, where are all these individual classes at?” Because of Andrew’s situation… That’s what happened quite a bit is people would buy a course, “Oh, I like that. Let me buy another one. Then let me buy another one.” Then before they know it, they had paid way more than what they actually needed to. That’s why at this point now we’ve just bundled everything together in the Trading Freedom Pathway and you get all the classes all at once. That just really cleans up situations like Andrew. So, I’m glad he’s sharing this because that’s the exact reason why we do it the way it is because it just gets too messy. I’m assuming that we worked out some sort of deal with you right? To get you into the full Lifetime package?
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, it was good.
Clay: Yeah. It’s good for you but it’s not good for us from a logistic standpoint because when we have to do that then we have to do all these custom orders and it gets messy. As listeners, that is why if you were to go to claytrader.com now, you’re not going to see these individual classes sold separately that Andrew’s talking about. All right. You start to get those, you get the Lifetime. I’m playing dumb a little bit here but I know at one point you decide to really focus on those personal finances and everything like that.
Andrew: Yep.
Clay: Like I said, I’m not saying you have to jump to that right now.
Andrew: No, it’s a good segue.
Clay: Keep that in the back of your mind. I’m curious, where does that actually show up at?
Andrew: Well, I mean, it kind of shows up next. For most of the time that I’ve been involved, I’ve had a really hard time connecting with charts. My chart vision is just not great. I think [Gainsgreen 00:26:54] said it in his podcast. It’s like somebody kicked over an anthill. I couldn’t connect to it, I couldn’t subscribe any meaning to it, any sense of weight or gravity of what anything really meant; and that wasn’t your fault at all. It was just my brain just couldn’t organize it. I was like, “Well, all right. What can I do? What can I focus on while I work towards getting more and more clarity?” Then that’s when your SLAB program came out. I was like, “Yeah, this is going to be my starting point. Even if I never make it as a trader or an investor or anything else in my life, I can do this.” So, I went full guns into that. I’ve got to say that has been the best and most transformational course that I’ve taken. It’s just been really, really amazing.
Clay: That’s why I wanted to bring it up because to me, I think you’re an inspiration to a lot of people out there within the realm of personal finances and everything. You really said it best, “If I fail at trading and investing and everything else, this is something I can do.” That’s the thing with personal finances is that’s something that everybody can do. Can everybody be a trader? No. At the end of the day, no, not everybody’s going to be a trader and that’s fine. That’s nothing against them. Just like not everybody’s going to be a… Fill in the blank of some profession. I’m never going to be a brain surgeon. That’s just not going to happen, but personal finances is something that everybody can do and not probably, they are the most practical thing that you could ever do. That’s the most powerful skill you can develop because well, you need money to function in this world. If you can understand how to organize money, then that’s going to be a very beneficial situation.
Clay: You tell what you’re comfortable with. Just from personal finance… I mean, where were you before you took the program? Then, I guess, kind of walk us through that. I think… Not I think, I know, your story is very inspirational and I think it’d be motivating to people that are maybe struggling with their personal finances, maybe not quite sure where to turn. I mean, share as much as you’re willing to in regards to how things were before and after.
Andrew: Yeah, no problems. I mean, before I just didn’t really have any structure, or any system or way of thinking about it or organizing it. I’d had debt problems because of some blow back of my divorce. I think there was some credit issues, there was a bankruptcy involved and all that sort of stuff. By the time I did the course, I didn’t have any debt. I managed to pay that off but I just didn’t really know where to go from there. I guess the most transformational part of the course was how you paint the picture of how to think about your system, or your kingdom, or your realm, or whatever. I think about that every day. I think I’m a bit like you in the sense I’m like a little kid with toy soldiers and then they’re off fighting battles and stuff like that. Yeah.
Andrew: Now I go around and I scan different parts of my kingdom, and I see how the health of each part is and how it’s all working together even from down to the smallest detail. If I’m putting pennies in a coin machine, and saving up, stuff like that. Yeah. Just learning how to run yourself like your own business. Cutting expenses, increasing income, be mindful of your own balance sheet, cashflow, stuff like that. Now I feel I’m sitting in a very, very well defended situation where I could last for quite a while just as is. I’ve integrated it with prepping and all that sort of stuff as well. That’s also part of my personal finance system, and just basic health and basic daily habits. Yeah. If I’ve failed at everything else, then this is a really good defendable position. You know?
Clay: No, you’re absolutely right and that’s why I wanted to ask. You can just tell by the way you talk in the chat room and stuff. It’s like, “Yeah, this man’s got a plan. He’s implementing the plan, he’s following it.” I love the comment about, “You are running a business.” To all you listeners out there, you are a business owner, okay? Let me just hit you between the face. Whether or not you like it, you own a business. You are an entrepreneur. What is that business? Your personal finances. It’s all decisions that are either going to help your life get better or worse or just stay the exact same. That all has to do with, “How do you understand your business and the numbers?” Now, Andrew’s made sense about cashflow… I get those are some big terms. Andrew, would you agree that the actual math… Example, calculating cashflow. None of this is difficult, right?
Andrew: No.
Clay: This is all basic, basic math.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s very, very basic. It sounds a lot fancier than it actually is.
Clay: Would you agree anybody can do it assuming they’ve gotten to, I don’t know, fifth grade?
Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and everyone should do it as well. It’s really great.
Clay: Okay. Like I said, sometimes my mind will be like, “No, Clay. That’s not how it actually is.” So, I just want to double check. Whether or not you would take my class or somebody else’s class, or no class at all, and you just decide to really put a focus on your personal finances, you’ve got to do it. You’re a business owner whether you like it or not so start to manage your business properly. It’s amazing how lucky you start to get when you actually start to manage your finances and put a plan into place. I mean, have you noticed anything quote, unquote, “lucky” that’s shown up ever since you’ve gotten your finances really in order? Does it just seem like you have more money all of a sudden?
Andrew: Yeah, more money but also just a better sense of self and sense of self security and maybe even self worth. Not in the sense that I’m over anyone, just that I’m feeling better about myself and my situation. My girlfriend is also running the same kind of system as well and we run in a nice tight little unit together. You just feel, I don’t know, a sense of support under your feet that helps stabilize you in amongst all the chaos. It’s like you’re on a bit of an armored surfboard as you’re going through life.
Clay: I like that analogy. “An armored surfboard.” I don’t think I’ve ever heard that but in my mind I’m picturing it’s got some shields and it’s got some guns on it.
Andrew: Yeah.
Clay: I mean, that’s a fantastic vision. I might to have to use that. “An armored surfboard.” Just going against the waves of life. There we go. I can build on this. I can build on this. You’re not going to sue me for copyright infringement are you?
Andrew: No, go for it man.
Clay: Okay. All right. Excellent, excellent. All right. Now, it sounds like you were doing this… This being the personal finance stuff, in correlation with still continuing to study and learn charts. Is that an accurate understanding?
Andrew: Sort of. I’ve got to be honest with you. I had to get to that point where I was like, “Well, maybe I just can’t read charts. Maybe I’m chart dyslexic,” or just whatever. I was like, “I’m just going to put the trading stuff to one side because I’m not connecting with it.” That’s probably why I wasn’t in the chat room much for the first period of time. Again, nothing to do with you, I just couldn’t connect; but I’m connecting now. That’s the good end to the story. After I did SLAB, then the next thing in the sequence was the Grow Rich course. Maybe it’s the reason I have a little bit of a confession and a bit of shame around… But I mean, not really. I mean, I just took a slightly different path. Again, another really good course.
Andrew: I signed up for M1 which did partial buying of partial shares and all that sort of stuff. So, I put some money into that. You start allocating your pie and you’re learning about stocks. Different types of blue chip stocks, and dividends, and P/E ratios, and ETF’s, and bonds, and all that sort of stuff. So, I got into that next. In M1, it was a bit too conservative for me so I changed the slices of pie to 50/50, 50% CGC and 50% CRON.
Clay: There we go.
Andrew: So, off we went again. Marijuana bubble number two.
Clay: How did this bubble play out?
Andrew: Well, I mean, really good; and then not so great. CGC, I think I figured out that I’d missed a large part of the move. It was one of the first movers. Then I was like, “All right. Well, let me have a look.” I think CRON may come as part of a second wave. Everyone’s piled into CGC, I kind of missed that. Then I went from 50/50 to 100% CRON.
Clay: All in.
Andrew: All in, baby. Just like poker. I did pretty well in that. At the end of… Can’t remember whatever year it was. It might have been the end of 2018 and it may be the start of 2019, I got out of M1 and I opened up an account with TD Ameritrade. I had two accounts now in TD Ameritrade, one that had the remnants of FITX and then one that had CRON. I remember it was the first pre-market buying opportunity of 2019 where I bought a ton more of CRON. I think at that point I got the second lowest price of the year and I was super happy. I think I might have emailed you and was like a dog wagging it’s tail like, “Yeah.” CRON went off on a mad run. It went up 100%, 150% run. Then when it got up to the top; again, I just was struggling with charts. I was like, “I don’t know when I’m supposed to sell.” I was reading stuff on message boards about, “Oh, this is over valuated and blah, blah, blah.” I was like, “I don’t even know what that means.”
Andrew: The next chapter and what I’ve done over the last maybe, I don’t know, year and a half, two years maybe or something like that was I got more into fundamental analysis. I wanted to know the difference between price and value because I just didn’t understand that. I felt like if I could figure out the difference between price and value, then I could look at a chart and be like, “Oh yeah. This is a bubble.” So, I went off into that road and I got more into other… I wouldn’t say penny stocks but I would say more small caps, and looking at fundamentals and stuff.
Clay: Why small caps? I think I know the answer but I’ll play stupid.
Andrew: Yeah, no worries. Well, because I had a smaller account. This is a typical kind of story. I did look at options and I took the Options course. The Simple Options, which was very good. I understood it after a while. I took the Forex course but again, I couldn’t really connect with either of those financial instruments. Options, I didn’t like the overlay effect of the price of the option over the price of the underlying asset. That was another level of complexity where I was already struggling with charts anyway. Then all the Greeks and [cedar 00:40:11] and all this sort of stuff. I tried it a couple of times with Spy and then trying to trade gold ETF. So, I did try. I was like, “Yeah, I’m just not connecting.” I could be right about the direction but if I get the timing wrong, I’m still wrong.
Andrew: Forex, I was like, “Yeah, I don’t really want to be…” I know your chart vision’s amazing but for someone who’s just starting off it’s like, “Yeah, I don’t want to learn about the U.S. economy and the British economy, or the U.S. economy and the Japanese economy. I don’t want to have to watch two news streams.” Again, I just couldn’t connect with Forex and there was no volume and I didn’t really want to do a margin account at the time. I was like, “All right.” I’m going back to lower price stocks and I’m trying to differentiate between, “All right. This is an illegitimate stock. This is just a pump and dump by people that are selling stories and shares.” Then I’m trying to look at companies that are legitimate, they’re not scams or anything. Then try and figure out, out of those legitimate lower price stocks, which ones are going to be successful versus which ones are not? Kind of like a Shark Tank mindset. So, I was trying to play stock market Shark Tank.
Clay: What fundamentals… What were the valuation metrics that you were applying to try to accomplish this Shark Tank approach to the market?
Andrew: I mean, nothing really. I wasn’t doing the cash flow… What is it? Price discounting method, whatever that is. That just seemed way too obtuse and just, I don’t know, fanciful. One of the things that I really liked and I still like is the concept of book value. For the first time ever, when I looked at a stock I could get a sense of maybe, this is the anchor point, the sense of gravity. If an accountant comes in and has to value all the assets on the book and sell everything off, then the book value is what you arrive it. Then you can look at the price to book ratio and see the relationship between the price and the underlying value of the stock, and maybe that gives you a sense of whether some things are overvalued or not. You know?
Clay: I kind of know but I’m going to know a lot better. How did this work out for you? Is this what you’re still doing present time?
Andrew: I like to play multiple games. Yes, I’m still doing it present time but with one account. I’m doing a fundamental driven account. At the beginning of this year was when I discovered your micro-futures stuff on YouTube. That was a game changer for me. That was like the way home to trading and technical analysis that I just couldn’t really connect with before. So, now I’m doing both. I’m doing the fundamental small caps and now I’m doing legit trading micro-futures.
Clay: What is it about micro-futures that you think… I mean, you said it just helped you connect with technical analysis and that was a game changer. What specifically about the micro-futures… What do you think is so drawing you into them?
Andrew: I mean, two things really. One is the simplicity compared to say, options. It trades like a stock, as if you had a ton of money and you could just trade whatever you wanted to really trade rather than just small riskier stocks. Then the fact that it’s opening 23 hours a day, and if you have a job… I wasn’t connecting as a swing trader. Because I wanted to go back to where I left back in 2003, I wanted to be able to sit in front of a screen and watch the market live and breathe and just kind of be with it. Micro-futures has given me that opportunity to be able to hold down a job and support myself so that I don’t have to stress about rent, and money, and food, and all that sort of stuff; and at the same time on a parallel path, go back to that day trader dream that I had back in 2003. It’s really amazing.
Clay: That makes a whole lot of sense. Do you think that being able to watch the markets unfold in realtime… My guess would be maybe that’s what’s helped with your technical analysis because now you’re actually seeing candles form. You’re actually seeing all these different dynamics. You’re seeing a pattern itself kind of quote, unquote, “grow” and just completely evolve along the way. Do you think that has probably some stuff to do with it in terms of connecting with your technical analysis chart vision?
Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Now I’ve got something where I can connect to and relate to. All of a sudden I feel like all the material that I’ve been looking at is coming to life. So, now I’m in a much better relationship with the material. I go off and trade for a bit. A good battle, or whatever; then I’ll be like, “All right. Now I’m going to go back to this part of the course and I’m going to go over this bit again. Then I’m going to go back and trade.” I’m going back and forth and just getting myself stronger. I think also because of this, now, connection with the instrument itself, and with charts and technical analysis that I was learning; all of a sudden, I was able to connect with people in the chat room where I hadn’t really been able to before. You know?
Clay: Exactly. Once you get that common thing to talk about, I mean, that goes a long way. For the listeners, just to offer up a little context, we are making a big distinction here. We are not talking about… Well, we are talking about futures but not futures in the sense of the ES, for example. Quote, unquote, “normal futures,” futures that were just around for a long time. The new futures, these micros, were invented… I don’t know, like a year and half ago, couple years. Point here being, we’re not talking about futures from the traditional sense because those can be very risky. Just the way futures operate, there are large amounts of risk that you have to take and there’s nothing you can do about it just because that’s the way futures move. I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole. However, what Andrew is talking about and which to I agree, is the huge game changer for many are micro-futures.
Clay: The word “micro”… Very important, because everything is just made small including the risk that you have to actually take. In other words, you can get involved with very small amounts of money; but yet you don’t have massive amounts of risks. Whereas normal futures… Yeah, you can get involved with small amounts of money but I mean, the account can just go “poof” and be gone in a very small amount of time because you have so much risk. The exact opposite is true for the micro-futures and like Andrew’s saying, because they’re open… We’ll call it six days a week, 23 hours a day. I know that’s a broad sense. Point being, they’re basically open around the clock. If you have a full time job; well then, there you go. You can still watch them play out. You can trade them pretty much whenever you want.
Clay: Andrew, what time are you normally watching the futures? Do you do it before work or do you do it after? Let me put it this way. Assume that a listener has a normal 9 to 5 type job, when could they probably be looking at the futures in the sense of how you’re doing it?
Andrew: Yeah, no problem. When I discovered this, I basically reoriented my schedule to make it work. I wanted futures to be my number one priority and then figure out my morning routine, my health routine, food, and all that sort of stuff around it so I could make it happen. I usually wake up 5:20 and then by 6:05 I’m then in front of my computer and starting to login and watch what’s going on with the market. I give myself a 10 minute… I have a little sand timer to try to stop me from being compulsive and just jump right in. I take 10 minutes just to slow down, observe, run through my list of rules, check out available strategies, stuff like that. From 6:15 until 7:30, then it’s just pure trading and watching the market. Then I find that morning period then really sets me up for the rest of the day.
Andrew: Depending on how my job is going, then I can kind of do it as a parallel path as long as I make my job the number one priority. That was one of my rules. If I have to really focus on something or be in a meeting then the market just has to wait. I have to flatten position or whatever. Yeah. I’m able to do it parallel paths. I can also then do it Sunday evening. I do it from 7:00 until 9:00 for a couple hours. I don’t trade the first hour because I want to give it an hour just to see what’s going on.
Andrew: Then I have the evenings available as well but that also depends on maybe how tired I am from my job. I don’t want to be standing in front of my computer making decisions when I’m not really thinking clearly. I think after the first few weeks, you relax a little bit. You’re like, “Oh, this isn’t going anywhere so I don’t have to force trades. I don’t have to chase it.” Even if I miss something and I have feelings about it, I can just wait, reset, and wait for the next opportunity to come along even if that’s the next day.
Clay: I mean, you’re kind of stealing all my thunder with the points I was going to make. You’re absolutely right. I was going to ask, “Do you see any problems…” You wake up and you want to trade before you have to go to work. The nice thing about the futures is, to your point, they’re always going to be there. They’re always open. Let me contrast this with… Put yourself in this situation as a listener. You get some vacation from work. Maybe you take a day off work. For whatever reason wherever you work is having a couple days off and you’re thinking, “Okay. I either took a day off or the work is giving me a couple days off. I’m going to be able to trade.” So, you’re going to be sitting there trying to do everything possible and if you miss stuff you’re going to get angry. Why are you angry? Well, because this is your chance. You took a day off work. You’re only given a couple days off work. You got to make the most of it.
Clay: In futures, it’s not like that. If you missed an opportunity, who cares? Tomorrow morning it’ll be there. It’s not like you have to take anything away from your day job in order to make stuff happen because, well, the market’s are open all the time anyway. From a psychological standpoint, that’s a huge, huge difference where you can say like Andrew’s saying, “I don’t get mad about it. It is what it is because I know that tomorrow’s a new day. Who knows? Maybe even tonight. Because I can miss something in the morning, go to work, and then come back at night.” Assuming of course, like Andrew said, you’re not feeling totally, mentally beat down; and there might be an opportunity then.
Clay: In other words, that’s my long way of saying it’s much easier to not force a trade. It’s much easier to not want to revenge trade or anything like that because you feel like you have some sort of limited time structure that you’re operating under. Whereas it is the case if you… Like I said for example, take a day off work. Now you have to take advantage of that. Whenever you feel as though you have to take advantage of some sort of situation, in trading, that’s got forced trades written all over it and you got to be very careful with that. That is really a freeing part about the markets, I agree. I mean, on average, how much time are you looking at the markets per day? Because it sounds like there’s some wiggle room in there depending on how you feel after work. I mean, is it a couple hours a day that you’re usually looking at the futures market? I mean, give us a ballpark.
Andrew: I mean, I’m watching it on a parallel path with my job all the time. Like I said, I prioritize my work. I think the big difference is if I’m between entering a trade which takes a lot more attention and whether it’s just managing a trade. If I’m entering a trade in the morning before, then managing that trade is relatively easy during the day; but I can watch it with half an eye. I mean, I have this Microsoft Surface Pro and this year I got a second screen. So, I take the little computer with me to work anyway even over the last two or three years. It’s not a problem at my job. Everyone’s cool with it. I do a pretty good job, everyone’s happy. So, everyone’s used to me doing this stuff now on a parallel path. I’ve built the brain wiring to support that. I have a good relationship with my boss and my job.
Andrew: I can watch it, usually until about mid afternoon, and then I start getting tired. My brain starts getting tired and I’m like, “All right. Now the chances of me making mistakes, or forcing trades, or wanting to gamble, or whatever, just increase.” Then I’m usually like, “All right.” I like to try and just chill out in the evening and spend time with my girlfriend and just do a bit of R&R really.
Clay: Now, let me ask you this way. Let’s say that you had a job where you can’t look at it at all. Under that premise, how much time, I mean, would you say that you would still be looking at the markets from a futures standpoint? [crosstalk 00:54:10]. I’m not factoring in during the day.
Andrew: All right. Maybe an hour and a half in the morning, two hours Sunday night. You could check in an hour or two… Maybe, let’s say you’re tired and you can only do an hour in the evening or something like that. What’s that? Maybe like 15 hours a week, something like that.
Clay: Okay. Breaking that down per day, it sounds like conservatively you’re getting two hours of realtime trading every day.
Andrew: Yeah, that sounds about right.
Clay: Yeah. As you as a listener, if you’re like, “Well, I don’t have a job like Andrew. My boss hates my guts.” Okay, fine. Eliminating all that and assuming you cannot watch the markets at all during the day, I mean, you’re still looking at minimum two hours. Now everybody’s saying, “Well, did he say that he wakes up at 5:20 A.M.?” Yeah, that’s what he said. You know what? If you want to make this work, then you’ve got to make it work. Sometimes sacrifices are needed.
Clay: What does that mean? Well, we have a good example here of what that means. Meh. Wake up at 5:20 A.M. Wake up a little earlier and that way you can trade these before you maybe have to go into work, or you can do it afterwards. The point here is, “You can be a trader.” You can quote, unquote, “be a day trader with a full-time job.” Again, when you’re new and you don’t know what you don’t know, most people think of day trading as well, the stock market. They’re like, “Well, the stock market’s open between this time and that time? Oh, I have a job between those times.” Yes, but when you step out… And this is why I’m excited about this episode. We’re opening lots of people’s eyes to the fact that… Yeah, the futures market exists but assuming you’re just getting started and have smaller amounts of money, you would just again, want to be focused on micro-futures.
Clay: I should plug this really quick. I do offer a futures course totally for free. It’s on YouTube so if you’re on Claytrader Futures or something like that, I’m sure it’ll populate. It’s four classes. Like I said, totally free so you can go watch that, learn more about futures, how they work. They don’t quite function exactly the same as stocks but it’s nothing complicated assuming you learn about it step by step which that class will allow you to do. I don’t know where the time went but we’ve got about 10 minutes left. I mean, I know you’re day trading so I understand that’s your strategy but are you looking for certain types of setups? What exactly are you looking for that would force you… That’s a terrible word, that would want you to hop into a trade?
Andrew: All right. Right now I’m still in that process of getting clear on that. So, I’m going back over the three basic long strategies and the five basic short strategies that you have. Yesterday I was literally making little drawing kind of flashcard things… Because I only trade one thing. That’s what I like. I don’t want to jump around, I just don’t have the mental flexibility for that. Right now I’m trading the micro-futures Russell 2000. In the morning, my strategy is to try and look at what strategy fits what I’m seeing and see what’s available. That’s what I’m currently working on. I don’t want to do just one or two strategies. I want to do one micro-future and then be able to pick amongst eight different strategies and apply it for a given situation.
Clay: How’s that going for you so far? I know you said it was a work in progress but do you feel as though you’re in an uptrend within the understanding of things?
Andrew: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I’m paper trading and I have no shame in that. I want to be able to really give myself time to build up the strong support and strong mental habits. I think I’ve just finished nine days straight green which is new for me. It’s not perfect. I’m not a perfect trader but it feels I’ve taken the next step towards building a foundation of confidence in sort of knowing what I’m doing.
Clay: Do you have any, not necessarily a hard core date, but do you have a general idea of when you would like to transition from the paper money practice trading to real money trading?
Andrew: Not really. I mean, I’m trying not to put a timeline on it. I want to really be looking at my development and my maturity, and ripening as it were. When I feel like I’m ripe then, “All right, let’s do it.” I want to get maybe another $500 dollars into my micro-futures account. That’s one prerequisite. I want to get clearer with the strategies and with patterns. I think once I feel really comfortable with that, maybe a month, two months of showing some consistency… No, maybe two months of consistency, I don’t know. Then I’ll be good to go. I’m not too far off but I’m not going to rush it and then blow myself up. You know?
Clay: Absolutely. That segues perfectly into this next question. The amount of money that you’re using in your paper trading account, that’s what you would start off with with real money, right?
Andrew: Yeah, yeah.
Clay: You’re not sitting there trading with $100,000 dollar micro-futures account?
Andrew: No, no.
Clay: Okay.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s exactly the same.
Clay: Perfect, perfect. Yeah. That was the typical pitfall that I’m sure you have heard many times before on the podcast so I don’t think I was trying to sneak attack you in any way that you didn’t see coming there. If I was sitting next to you and I was looking at your screen, I mean, what would I see on your chart? Especially as somebody that’s admitted to having struggled a little with tactical analysis, now that you’ve really connected to it, I mean, what does your chart look like? What kind of indicators are you using? How is all that structured?
Andrew: Yeah. I mean, I like the 50 SMA and the 200 SMA. I like the VWAP. VWAP is really cool. I like the RSI. I like the Awesome Oscillator. I don’t know how awesome it is but I like it. It’s kind of basic.
Clay: Wait, that’s what it’s called? The Awesome Oscillator?
Andrew: Yeah.
Clay: Where did you get this thing from?
Andrew: I don’t know. YouTube, just clicking around.
Clay: Oh my goodness.
Andrew: Yeah.
Clay: Don’t you feel a little sketchy finding something on YouTube called the Awesome Oscillator?
Andrew: Oh, come on. How could you go wrong?
Clay: Well, all I’ll say is I’m glad this is paper trading.
Andrew: Yeah. The Awesome Oscillator and what’s the other one I use? Oh, the ADX DMI for looking at [inaudible 01:00:46] trends. Then I use the timeframes like The Daily, The One Hour, the 15. Then I’ll toggle between the 15 and the 5 for execution. Yeah, that’s it. It’s taken me a long time to… Timeframes and stuff was definitely a bit of a kaleidoscope effect. I couldn’t figure that out. Indicators, I was playing with for a long time and now I just try and tell myself a story as I’m going through. I’m like, “All right. This one. Blah, blah, blah. Bearish, bullish, whatever.” It’s not like a Holy Grail but these are little things that help me tell the story. Then I try and line it up to a strategy and be like, “All right. I think this is what’s going on. Let’s do this.”
Clay: Well, I will say that from where you started to where you are now, that’s a pretty big 180 minus the Awesome Oscillator. I’m not going to lie, I’m a little worried about that but maybe it’s working if you’ve had nine days in a row. Let me put it this way. Keep me posted on the Awesome Oscillator in an email or whatever and we’ll see how it goes. This is a great ending point here before we move into some of the fun questions and stuff. Yeah, like I said you really have… To listen to how you were kind of like an aimless dog to now you’re like a pit bull with purpose at this point on your armored surfboard. It’ll be interesting as to how this continues to go. Final question here before the fun questions. If we were to lend you the time machine and you could go back to the start of all this and give yourself one bit of advice, what would that bit of advice be?
Andrew: I mean, I don’t know this if this is arrogant or not but I wouldn’t change anything because it’s like hindsight trading your life. I just don’t really have any regrets about how I’ve lived my life or whatever. It’s okay getting beaten up and learning along the way. I mean, I could say the typical things like, “Well, I wish I’d started earlier,” or, “I should have done this;” but I mean, then I wouldn’t be who I am. You know?
Clay: That’s true. That is true. Hey, it’s your answer so you can answer it however you want. As long as you don’t say, “Well, I wish I would have bought Amazon back in 2000.” Besides that, fair point. Answer accepted. All right. Well, fun questions. Let’s get to know you a little bit better here. Andrew, what is your favorite movie?
Andrew: All right. I have two favorite movies. One is Hacksaw Ridge and the other is These Final Hours.
Clay: These Final Hours. Hacksaw Ridge. Yeah. That’s the… What? World War II, right?
Andrew: Yeah. These Final Hours is an Australian independent movie. It’s apocalyptic where an asteroid hits the earth and the impact shockwave, or fireball, or whatever is slowly spreading around the earth. It lands in Europe. It’s going around the earth and it takes a bunch of hours before it hits Australia, but everyone’s aware of it. It’s These Final Hours. It’s pretty intense but it’s very cool.
Clay: Okay. Sounds like I might have to get it on the movie list. Then when my wife says, “Where did you find this?” I’m going to be like, “Hey, I blame the Englishman.” Okay? That’s all I’m going to say. Even though you still have lived in New York City for the past 20 years, I’m just going to call you the Englishman. All right. Interesting. It sounds pretty intense. It does. What about food? What do you like to eat in New York City?
Andrew: If I was going out for my birthday, I’d be looking to go out for a nice filet mignon.
Clay: You can’t go wrong with that.
Andrew: Yeah.
Clay: Nice piece of steak. What do you like to do for hobbies?
Andrew: I like watching UFC and I like betting on the horses.
Clay: Have you ever been to the Kentucky Derby?
Andrew: I haven’t. We only got into it a couple years ago when Justify began his triple crown win. Yeah. I mean, we only bet silly, small amounts. The smallest kind of stuff you can bet because obviously, it’s a losing game. Yeah, it’s just really fun.
Clay: What is the smallest amount you can bet? I don’t know anything about horse…
Andrew: The least amount you can bet… It’s a dollar.
Clay: Oh, okay.
Andrew: Yeah. It’s a show bet. If your horse comes in first, second, or third, you win a little bit of money but not very much. I mean, it’s a game of negative expectations so you do it for the fun of it and to try and keep the game going as long as possible. As long as you keep it super low level and with your eyes open then what the hell?
Clay: Okay. All right. I was like, “Please don’t say that a small, minimum bet is $500 or $1,000 dollars.” Okay, $1 dollar. Fine. I can see that. That makes sense then. Perfect. All right. Then final question. Three words. These three words would be what you would associate with what a successful trader looks like or what it takes to be a successful trader.
Andrew: All right. Do you mind if I give you four words?
Clay: I do. Rules matter. Three.
Andrew: All right. All right. You got it man. All right.
Clay: Three.
Andrew: I’ll give you three then.
Clay: Rules. As a trader, you understand. Rules matter. Do you agree?
Andrew: Yes, I agree.
Clay: All right. Three.
Andrew: All right. All right. I would say, “Clarity, control and consistency,” in that order.
Clay: Oh, in that order? I agree. Especially control. Control, it seems obvious. It’s like, “Well, of course you have to have control.” I’m pretty sure everybody starts off uncontrolled. Now, at the time they don’t realize they’re uncontrolled but they actually are so that’s a really good word. Right there we almost nailed it right at an hour, 7:31 A.M. Eastern time here. We did very well. Andrew, thank you again. Oh, and I wanted to publicly apologize. I totally hung you out to dry on emails. Andrew sent me a question on email. How we had that email address… I guess that makes sense given you signed up back in 2017 or whatever. It’s an email where… I mean, I check it kind of ish but odds are high they slip through the cracks. He sent me an email, it just went un-responded… Which I try to take pride in. I mean, if you email me, I want to email you back. He was polite about it but ultimately you actually figured out the answer to the question.
Andrew: Yep.
Clay: Andrew, I do apologize for that. Nothing personal at all. I do appreciate you actually replying back to the normal email address I gave you but I’m sorry for that.
Andrew: Oh, no problems man. No worries. Thank you so much.
Clay: All right. Will you come back in the future to update us on your continued future, pun intended, progress?
Andrew: Yeah, I’d love to.
Clay: All right. Awesome, awesome. Well, for those of you as listeners, before you go, final few things… Requests on my part. If you’re listening on iTunes or any of the other podcast players, please subscribe so that way you know when new content is released. Especially on iTunes, if you could leave us a rating, that would go greatly appreciated. Five stars hopefully. Even better yet, if you could leave a written review, that helps us out… Goes a long way. Your feedback, leaving a rating, really is appreciated and I thank you in advance for it. If you’re listening at claytrader.com on the show notes page, then there is a little live chat box on the bottom right hand corner there. If you click on that, you can reach out to us. Comments, questions, suggestions, I’d love to hear from you as listeners of the podcast. So, any of those choices would be great. Thank you again, Andrew. Thank you again to all of you as listeners and we will see you back next week.
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