LIVE WEBINAR: 1 Hour Trader Transformation

73 Days. Only 1 Losing Day. Possible? Yes! Let Me Show You...

This Free Event Reveals: How I transformed myself from an employee to being my own boss (and how you can too, even with no experience!)

Thursday - December 3rd - @ 7:00 pm est

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When it comes to trading success (and in most areas of life), having patience is a big requirement needed. However, there are definitely some areas within trading where impatience can work in your advantage and once you realize this, good things can begin to happen! My guest from the community, Matt, shares his journey with us which started off in a very rough (and as he disclosed, “embarrassing”) way. How did Matt recover from this train wreck of a start? What choices and maneuvers did he make to try and get the train back on the tracks? Matt was brutally upfront and honest in his mistakes, which serves up all kinds of valuable learning insights, so stick around for the whole thing and I know you’ll walk away prepared to be a better trader!


Clay: This is the Stock Trading Reality Podcast episode 277.
Announcer: This is the Stock Trading Reality Podcast where you get to see the realistic side of a trader’s journey, get inspired and stay motivated by every day normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success. And this is your host. He has become a jelly bean expert, ClayTrader.
Clay: No, not only am I a jelly bean expert, but I’m quickly learning that jelly beans, when it comes to kids, it’s like little gold nuggets. Some may call it a bribe. I choose the economic pathway of calling them incentives. But while they’re a good incentive to, hey, if you guys pick up your rooms in X amount of time, you’ll get a jelly bean or hey, fill in the blank of something that is beneficial for me and mommy and you’ll get a jelly bean. And boy oh boy, they sure do make a lot of jelly beans out there from, not that this is anything new, but I have no idea why. I was at a store and I saw a bag of jelly beans and it was on sale. And I thought, you know what? I remember liking jelly beans. Maybe the kids will like them too.
Clay: So I just picked them up and it has, I don’t know, like 40 different flavors in it. Everything from piƱa colada to coffee to cotton candy to bubble gum. And yeah, I mean, of course I was on chocolate. My kids like them and that I like them, but jelly beans, they’re good. Like there’s, especially if, now I don’t like black licorice or stuff like that, but 90% of them, I mean, it’s crazy actually how close they can get the taste to what the actual jelly bean is. But yeah, I mean, I’ve been dealing with jelly beans quite a bit recently, and I feel very confident in my jelly bean flavorings. You look at a jelly bean and then being able to guess, oh well, is that red apple or is that spicy cinnamon? I’m getting good. I can probably tell you before you actually take a bite is that green apple or is that some sort of like pear or something like that. I’m getting pretty good.
Clay: So if you need some help before you take a bite in that jelly bean, just send me a picture and I’m very confident that I’ll be able to decipher what the flavor actually is, or you can just look on the back of the bag, which I think my daughter Joy who’s learned to read, she thinks that’s the greatest thing ever. And even my daughter who’s learning to read, that’s a nice little reading tool they like to look in, that is, and you’ll figure out what jelly bean it is. So an educational tool all at the same time. But if you need a currency for, again, not bribes but incentives, you might want to consider a big old bag of jelly beans. It’s little golden nuggets.
Clay: As for our episode today, awesome, awesome stuff. Matt, who, as you’ll see in the beginning, we’ve never talked. This was literally the first time we sat down, but he held nothing back. Glad that I had a pry a little bit at the beginning to have him open up the details there, but when he opened it up, he was more than willing to just share a lot of the wrong moves he made and some which he was just like, “Yeah, definitely don’t do this, totally embarrassing.” But I will also say he’s come a very, very long way and is now seeing some success. I pressed him. I thought I was getting sly about it, which you’ll see, but he kind of called me out and I wasn’t as sly as I thought I was. But point being, he’s grown his account and he’s doing it in a way that’s going to be sustainable and viable. He’s got a lot of good things going for him, but he definitely didn’t start out necessarily behaving in the right manner.
Clay: I will also say that at the beginning, there’s a little bit of some technical issues, but it doesn’t last the whole time. So just push through there. And then after that, it’s clear sailing, like I said. You’ll definitely want to listen to the whole thing. It is filled with great nuggets of wisdom and experience and we go down to a bunch of good rabbit holes. So without further ado, let’s hear about Matt and his journey. Matt, welcome to the show.
Matt: No, thank you for having me.
Clay: Now I have to ask, are you or have you ever served in the military? Are you in the military right now?
Matt: I was fortunate to serve in quickly.
Clay: Okay. Because I noticed you were referring to me as sir, which most people don’t do that. I’m like, okay, this guy’s either just was brought up in the South somewhere or he’s some sort of military connections, but that would make sense. I mean, if that’s what you’re used to, that’s fine, but I will not be offended if you do not refer to me back as sir, but I mean, whatever your comfort level is there, go with it. I noticed that when we were talking before we got recorded and I thought, “Huh, interesting.” All right, well, Matt, have we ever spoken before in email or anything like that? I’m trying to refresh.
Matt: No, we haven’t.
Clay: Okay. All right. So this is our first time ever interacting then for the most part?
Matt: That’s right.
Clay: Awesome. All right. So for viewers out there, we have a tried and true, what I’d try to aim for here on the podcast where Matt and I we’re going to sit down first time talking, you get to be a fly on the wall and yeah, we’re just going to talk trading and we’re going to all learn about Matt and his journey. So with that being said, where did all this start for you, Matt? I mean, where did you hear about the markets? What sort of events or dynamics played out that put you at the point where you’re like, you know what, I want to get a little bit more hands on with this.
Matt: Well, Clay, I made a big mistake which a lot of people do, they listen to someone at work about trading advice.
Clay: Great. Oh no. That’s a great way to kick things off. All right. I like it. I like it.
Matt: I lost a bunch of money and after that I thought to myself, well-
Clay: No, no, no, no, no, no. I don’t mean to be so rude but you can’t just say that, lost a bunch of money, and then move on. What was this trading advice? I mean, I’m not asking you to name the person, but what was the advice?
Matt: No, I think, yeah, I work at a bank now, so I assumed that people in banking would know about like personal finances. You give people the benefit of the doubt, and that was an error. I should have assumed to do my own homework and to figure things out myself. But there was a gentleman at work who was active in playing the markets and he was… I would talk to him daily just to kind of catch up. I’m a very nice man. And he mentioned a couple of trades that he was making and I said, “Okay, I’ve got a bunch of money. Let me try that out.” And that was literally the extent of the thought process. No real self-learning, no real vetting with peers or anything like that. And I remember I did… later on I realized I did all the things you shouldn’t, and it was a good learning through just doing it wrong.
Matt: After that experience I started to think to myself, “Well, it’s time to get some more knowledge on this from people that are pros.” So when you go on the internet, I mean, there’s probably two dozen different people that are selling different educational packages, but yours stood out. Your communication style resonated with me. You basically gave three things that you shouldn’t do, and I had done all of them in that particular trade. I remember thinking to myself, “All right, this guy, he talks in a way that I can understand.” Or some of your competitors it’s like, it’s just tacky and it doesn’t… just the communication style I didn’t really pick up on.
Clay: So what were these three things that I said that you had done?
Matt: Number one was have an exit strategy. So basically if things start to fail, you should have a price point that you want to get out or at least a percentile you want to get out at. Number two was, don’t put any more money on a losing position. All right. When this thing was going down, you start to engage in hope and, “Oh, if I put more money on it, it’ll come back.” You basically trick your own mind into doing it. And then the third was you need to have an overall strategy into the bigger picture. So, I didn’t do any one of those. I didn’t have a price point exit. I put money on a losing position, it was going down, and I did not know how… no, I didn’t take the time to figure out how that actual trade fit into the bigger picture of things. So you kind of laid it out, and it wasn’t like a conversation or one of your videos that you itemized everything, it was just sort of your way or talking and you included all those points in that and that resonated with me.
Clay: Okay. Was this spread across multiple ticker symbols or was this just one ticker symbol?
Matt: Non-traded. It was UGAZ. It was the natural gas trade.
Clay: The leveraged ETF world?
Matt: Oh yeah. I thought it was as simple as, well, it’s going to get colder place.
Clay: Yeah. I had a feeling you might’ve been going down that rabbit hole logic. For listeners’ sake, UGAZ as a leveraged ETF at, it’s basically the natural gas industry for lack of better terms. And a lot of people they’re like, “Oh, well, winter is coming. It will be cold in winter. People don’t like to be cold, they were therefore need to warm their houses. What’s needed to warm house is, oh, natural gas. Oh, more people will be paying for natural gas. Oh, this thing involves natural gas. It will go up. I’m going to buy.” But it’s just, it doesn’t quite… I mean, everything I said, Matt’s thought process to be fair to him was totally logical.
Clay: It’s not like it was irrational. Now, if he was saying, well, summer’s coming, so now I’m going to get natural gas. I’m like, “Wait a second. That doesn’t make any sense.” But I mean, he gets it. However, the market’s not that polite. It’s not going to be that giving to you where it becomes that easy. Where did you find UGAZ from? Was this what your buddy at work told you about or did you find it all on your own?
Matt: No, it was just literally through that conversation with this gentlemen. It’s funny because after something like that happens, you start to look at people at work or professionals and just think, their professional expertise is in corporate banking and finance, it’s not maybe with their own personal finances because that’s why they’re working and not retired. So you never really want to take advice from someone where you can’t vet them a little bit, at least.
Clay: That is true. I had some sense similar when I was younger and an older gentleman told me, and I was like, that’s just one of those things where I guess I didn’t have enough life experience, but my whole thing was somebody who was… they were struggling with some personal financial type stuff. But I also knew that this person helped people with their taxes and was basically an accountant. So I made the comment, I don’t remember the exact context, but the whole idea was, what are you talking? They’re an accountant. They understand numbers real good. Why would they be having any sort of personal, like how could they not have their own numbers in order?
Clay: The guy was like, “Listen, that’s not quite…” I mean, he didn’t say it as brutally and honest, but he basically said, “Clay, listen, the world’s not quite that simple. I see your line of logic. But just because somebody understands numbers and can help do taxes for other people, it doesn’t mean that their own house of cards is actually in order.” I was like, “Oh yeah, I guess that would make sense.” So I see your point there and that’s a point we can definitely relate on. Before I forget though, did he tell you what broker to use or did you go out there and find your own broker? Because I know a lot of people are always, at least for me I always like to just hear where do people start in the whole broker and platform when their journey first began.
Matt: No, that’s a good question. He never gave like a recommendation for… He didn’t send a vote as going one way or the other. He just showed me, here’s how to set up a platform on each trade and here’s how much it’s going to cost. He was old enough to have gone through a bunch of booms and busts. So it was always almost fascinating to talk to him because he had lost his own, like many people, 401k. It had gone there and back and everything else. So, he didn’t trust financial advisor. He didn’t, because he had gone bust with having people manage his own money, that he just did it all himself. So, he didn’t really incentivize going through a broker. He was more do it yourself on your trade. And there’s a lot of good points with that too.
Clay: Okay. So your first broker was e-trade. So you just open up a new e-trade account and then bought you guys.
Matt: Yeah. That was it.
Clay: There you go. And how long did this trade actually last for?
Matt: Well, it was $8,000 when I got in and I remember one up, I think it was like $11,000. I thought I was a genius and I thought, “Oh man, it was easy.” I went like, “Oh man, is this easy?”
Clay: And what amount of time did it go out?
Matt: It was probably within three days.
Clay: So your account went from eight grand to 11 grand-
Matt: A thought I was a genius
Clay: … in three days. I’m bringing this down because I mean, in hindsight, it’s funny to laugh about, but at the time, what would you think? And be honest with yourself, listeners, if you put your money into something and then three days later you’ve made $3,000. I mean, that’s a thousand bucks a day for basically doing nothing besides making the decision to put your money into this thing called UGAZ. I mean, it’s a thousand bucks a day, not too bad. I don’t blame you for thinking that you were some sort of genius. I mean, did you start buying more or what did it go from that point. Three days later, you’re up to $11,000 account total.
Matt: Well, two things there, Clay. Number one, I started on everyone I knew. I’m one of five kids. [crosstalk 00:14:01]. All my brothers. I was like, “Oh, you guys got to get into this.” I acted like I knew everything about it. I really didn’t know anything about it. I just started, it was funny what it did to my brain. I just started telling people, you got to do this, and acting like I know everything about it. I’m sure there’s some bias involved in that. So that was stupid, I shouldn’t have done that because it was embarrassing. Number two was it went up and what’s funny when I think back and reflect on that, the furthest thing from my mind was getting out. I didn’t even once think that I should get out. I just was like, oh, it’s just going to keep going, under no logic, under no mathematical support.
Clay: But I disagree. I would argue that you would be irrational to want to get out. I mean, you just made $1,000 per day over the last three days. So there’s nothing irrational to say, “Well, why would I sell now? I’m going to keep on making money. That’s what the past three days have produced. So why would I think that all of a sudden something’s going to change.” I mean, when you don’t know what you don’t know, you were being totally logical. I mean, you’re making money, man. Why would I stop making money? I’m good at this. And you had the data to back up that you’re good at this because three days you made a thousand bucks per day. I mean, that’s but-
Matt: I should have known the broader bit.
Clay: I know, but I mean, that’s what… and thank you so much for being candid about this. This is good stuff but it really does illustrate the fool’s gold exists. The market loves to lure people in, giving them some success, giving them some success. Well, I mean, not to kind of already let the cat out of the bag, but he’s not alone at all in where this all ends. So please, as a listener, Matt is dropping some huge knowledge on you right now. If you’re experiencing, especially if you’re newer and you’re experiencing success and you’re experiencing all sorts, I mean, does that mean that you don’t have an actual strategy? No, maybe you do. But please at least consider that perhaps you just have some fool’s gold. I get it, some people say, “Oh man, you’re just a hater. You’re jealous of me because I got to figure it out.”
Clay: I know. I hear it all the time. All I’m asking is just consider the possibility that maybe you’re experiencing what Matt did and getting a little too overconfident. Maybe it’s not quite as easy as what you think it is, but… Oh yeah. You said that… I mean, so I totally understand what you’re thinking. I think you were being logical, but that is funny though that that was the furthest thing away from your mind. So I mean, yeah, keep on going. This train wreck is entertaining.
Matt: Not so. I encourage, another thing to your listeners who if they have started trading and the first thing they want to do is brag about their friends who have probably [inaudible 00:16:48].
Clay: Agreed, agreed.
Matt: That was on a Friday and that was up at that 11,000 mark. And then pretty much from that time on, for the next four weeks or so it tanked. And then it went through a stock split because it was doing so poorly. I remember again during that whole slide almost maybe two, I can’t even count because it was so low, but the amount of times that I actually thought that it’s not going to go back up, it starts to slide, slide, slide, then it starts to tank. But still my mind was like, “Well, I mean, it’ll come back, right? Winter is going to be here and everything’s going to be saved.” That was the extent of our thought process on it.
Matt: That’s about the time I started to think to myself, “Okay. I probably could have done something else with this lost money.” And then it hit, yeah, I lost like half of it, four grand or something. And by that time, then there was a stock swing and so I said, okay. It forced me to understand what that was. And that was a clear indicator that this just wasn’t going anywhere. So after getting out, you kind of reassess and look back and say, “Okay, I lost four grand and I probably could have done something better with that money.” Well, I see the power though of these markets and how things go and how fast it is. But there’s clearly a lacking in my own education or understanding of it. So, that’s where I kind was shopping around and I think that was it.
Clay: And then that’s what brought you to kind of where we started, where you came across one of my videos, which after prying into the details there, you absolutely had no exit plan.
Matt: Nop.
Clay: Yeah. You just were… I might have to start to throw that one out there about, you know what, before you, and I love the word reassess that you’re using, before you go and start telling your family and friends about all this sort of stuff when you have less than one week, you might want to reassess-
Matt: Stop. Just stop. Stop.
Clay: Yes. Abort a mission immediately. Yeah. Okay. Oh, that was good. That was good. See Matt, and you try to skip over all that. You little scumbag trying to skip over what was so educational and beneficial. That was some good stuff. All right, well. You come across my videos and you’re like, “Okay, I like this guy.” You use the word tacky. Just what do you mean by some of these other guys were tacky? And I’m not looking at you to throw people under the bus. I’m just curious on what your definition of kind of tacky was that you thought other people did because I’m in full disclosure on my part. I mean, this is me talking from a business perspective too. I’m curious, what caught your eye over how other people were acting about whatever you found other people being “tacky.”
Matt: No. Sure. Yeah, I’ve done some of my own business as well. So I try to put myself in the mind of people who are trying to sell me something because I’m typically very conservative when it comes to trusting people with my money, and especially with education, right? I really only want to buy something that I feel I’m actually going to get out of that is a way of learning that I can go up on. As soon as you start typing anything into the internet, you’ll start getting a bunch of ads that are focused on, right? The algorithm will pick up, whatever, trading education or something like that. Very quickly, maybe five or six other adverts start to come on of people that are offering services to sort of educate someone who’s new on how to play the markets and different strategies and whatnot.
Matt: And I kind of had there’s really two types. And then I came upon a video of yours. The other two types were just kind of very sophisticated sounding, a lot of suits. Had done like traders on Wall Street and it was communicated in a way that a lot of fluff, but no real psychology behind just getting started and what to expect. It was a lot of promises on this is what you’re going to get if you buy my program. It was financial independence in trade. There was no support on data or the actual process of learning. All those people I could dismiss very quickly as, okay, they’re just who gets rich during the gold rush. It’s people that sell shovels. Now it’s people that kind of entice you to do so but there’s only one map for where that gold is and if you had it, turning elsewhere isn’t real.
Matt: The second type, it was more or less like YouTube following, right? It was someone that would try to livestream what they did, but do it in a way that it was probably highly configured. I’m sure they didn’t just get up and do that. They made a bunch of money and then afterwards they tried to sell something that was related to education. So, both those two are kind of that sort of a theme. And then ClayTrader came on. I mean, that was like-
Clay: Some dude sending in his tee-shirt.
Matt: And there was something about that, to be honest. It was, you could tell this guy, he was an engineer. That’s one thing I thought when I saw the way you were communicating. And two was, yeah, it was really not a lot of fluff. And just your communication style, I felt was a little more blue collar and you could talk about it in layman’s terms, but your underlying educational philosophy is you got to look at charts. Screw what people are talking about in the markets and all these opinions. It’s very important to focus on the reality of volume, what’s actually going on in per section, and that kind of hammered home less fluff to discuss, so let’s give them a chance.
Clay: Cool. All right. Well, that’s funny you bring that up because I just had a YouTube comment about somebody saying technical charts are nice, but stocks are driven by news and rumors, to which I think Matt and I would both agree. Well, yeah, they’re driven. But also the next question becomes, right, but driven in what direction? Because there’s news, there’s rumors, but what direction is that actually driving? And then what would drive the prices in the directions that they go either up or down. Well, feelings, emotions. That’s what drives that. If everybody’s freaking out, that’s going to drive the price down. If everybody’s excited, that’s going to drive the prices up.
Clay: And you know what a tool’s a great way out there to decipher, to determine people’s feelings? Charts. So the person unwittingly didn’t even know, but he proved the point on why charts are so important, because I don’t know about you as a listener, but I can look at a news release or a rumor and be like, “Oh wow,” and my feelings are, “That’s good. I mean, they just beat earnings. Oh, that’s good.” And then I look at the price and the price is going straight down. The point being, yeah, the news is driving a stock, rumors are driving a stock, but as far as what direction, a news isn’t going to tell you that.
Clay: I mean, I’m sure you’ve been there before as a listener if you’re being honest with yourself that you look at a headline and you think one thing and then the price is doing the exact opposite. But a chart, to match point which spurred all this is, yeah, you got volume on a chart and you got price action on a chart. Those are actually relatively important things if you’re looking to make money from a stock; what direction is it going in and how many people are interested, which is what volume is showing you. So, good point there. I think that I’m going to do a YouTube video on that comment itself because it kind of just proves the whole idea of, I mean, what you really just getting at.
Clay: Just everybody’s got an opinion. Everybody thinks this, that and the other, but let’s just see what the market’s opinion is. And that’s where the chart comes into play. So well, thank you for sharing all that. I appreciate it. A very thought out breakdown because that’s exactly the approach that I would say people take is either the suits and using big words and sophistication and then other people are, like you said, you just kind of make these things a little bit more scripted out or however you want to classify that. But all right, well, did you sign up for the inner circle right away or I guess… I don’t want to tell you where to go with your journey, but you came across my videos, you liked what I had to say. So where did things go from that point?
Matt: Yeah. I think, one, I remember laughing to myself that this guy’s in a tee-shirt in this one video and he’s like he clearly just, he has a different approach and he’s very comfortable with himself. So it’s like, okay. I realized every one of your videos is like that. You’re like in a tee-shirt with a chalkboard. I was like, okay.
Clay: Well, I did at the whiteboard stage two now, but I’m back to the blackboard, yep.
Matt: You did. The other thing in my mind, which also kind of sold me is I’m not from Scottsdale, but I bought a house out and I saw some of your lifestyle photos that looked like it was like in the desert. So I was like, “Okay, cool.” Like if there’s a community of people that are doing this, I learn much faster and much quicker if I’m around those people. I could actually have a conversation similar to what this is going on right now. So, I was a little incentivized by that too. And then, yeah, I bought whatever, I think it was like 400, 500 bucks or something to get started. I was immediately impressed because you had a Gillum and it was done in a way to hammer home some fundamentals.
Matt: You had an audience of people that you were talking to and it was like, this is how to learn. And I enjoyed that type of learning in the beginning because that means, as a new student you have to remind yourself that you really don’t know anything, so I expect the teacher to actually inform me what I should pay attention to or not. And that was your whole spend on the beginner, right? So price action of volatility, focus on the fundamentals. And then you had exercises that were actually doing the charts. That impressed me as well. So it kind of made, I guess, accountability on both ends and that you provided a means through exercises, like actually looking at charts, actually giving the right answer, giving the wrong answer and then getting feedback.
Matt: That did give me a little more confidence in trying to do and continue trading on myself or on myself by myself without sort of asking anyone else’s opinion or really not asking anyone else’s uninformed opinion, but early looking at the news. It was just taking a look at charts. Yeah. Then I kept buying additional packages. I think the third part, besides the tee-shirt, the fact of being in the area. But the one thing I didn’t expect that I really did like is the actual chat channel, right? Every morning you guys are there and you’re given what your stock picks are and it’s like real time, and you manage that channel very carefully.
Matt: You don’t let people on there who maybe would give an opinion that isn’t right. I mean, these are clearly experienced people in trading and every day before the markets opened even well before that, stock picks, and that as a new person is such a great tool because it’s a filtering mechanism. You’re compiling all these different trades and you’re actually telling people or giving, not advice but you’re informing people of where at least the action is before even the markets are open. I’ve used that a lot. Part of me is like, that might be next to the education. To me, at least that’s one of the most valuable things to your program is the access to that chat.
Clay: You make a good point. And I want to make others aware of this. The big distinction that I hear from Matt, and correct me if I’m wrong, but you went through some training, you went through the study guides and all that. And then you’re saying, and in combination with that education, those study guides, what you had done, the chat room and all those alerts and picks, that was really beneficial. Is that a right understanding?
Matt: Oh yeah.
Clay: Okay. As listeners out there, you have to keep that in mind because I see it all the time. It’s a great business model. Hey, don’t worry about it. You don’t have to learn anything. Follow my system. I’ll give you my picks, sign up for my text messages or whatever, and I’ll take care of it all. That’s not what Matt is saying. Matt is saying that the chat room and the pics and the alerts were beneficial in combination with the fact that he had learned to think for himself. So, that’s a big apples and oranges thing that I see get mixed up all the time.
Clay: Well, I’m just going to sign up for an alert service and they’ll tell me when to buy, sell and all this sort of stuff. And if only it were that easy. If only it were that easy, but there is an aspect of you needing to be able to think for yourself, which is what Matt is getting at here. I can definitely see how that would be beneficial, where you get an alert and you get a pick, whatever you want to call, and then you would go, I’m assuming that you would pull up the chart and you would see it, like you said in real time and be like, “Oh yeah, I just learned about that. Okay. I can see it playing out in real time.” Is that pretty much how it worked out for you?
Matt: Yeah, that’s exactly it. I would go through those sort of picks and then I would do my own homework. But I would look at them, I would look at the charts, I would see what’s going on. It was great.
Clay: And let’s cut you off, but would you go back after the day was over, for example?
Matt: Yeah, I have a whole… I like benchmark. So everyday I would for I would say two months, I just captured what you guys and girls had said on that chat room, I would monitor actual effectiveness of it. How good those places were, one I should and one I should’ve gotten out. And then after about let’s say a few weeks of doing that, then I started getting my own money involved in it. And that was, so it was a combination of testing it out just by vetting your results, right? And two, having the wherewithal from your education to actually take some ownership and responsibility. It’s not a guaranteed thing. I think you’re absolutely right. There are business models for educational packages that, yeah, if it were only that easy that someone would tell you exactly when to get in and exactly when to get out and how much money. Just snake oil.
Matt: So that’s how I used to think trading was when I put that eight grand in is I thought, okay, someone’s just going to be what price to get in and what price to get out at, and that’s it? No, I mean that’s, yeah, fool’s gold. That’s a good way to get someone to wrap that. There has to be some education behind it, but that filtering mechanism of a chat channel with like-minded people who have a lot of experience and have done this for a while, yeah, I think it enormously beneficial.
Clay: That’s a great study habit that you did where you benchmarked it, then you would go back and look, and I’m not saying that this is unique to my chat room, so I’m not trying to say that. The only way you can do this is you have to sign up for my community. I’m not saying that, but if you are a member of my community, one very, very beneficial thing where I think is pretty standard, but when a message is left, hopefully there’s a time next to it. And what I’m assuming Matt did was Matt looked at the end of the day, for example, went back and said, “Okay, at that exact time, this was alerted.”
Clay: So let me go on the chart at that exact time and see what things look like and then see how things played out. My point here is a little quick study hack is, yeah, if you’re a part of a community and assuming there’s a timestamp that’s left whenever alerts are made, take the timestamp, look at the chart at that point in time and you can do exactly what Matt was doing. So is that what you were pretty much doing, Matt? You were looking at those timestamps and then checking out the chart and matching things back up?
Matt: Yeah, that’s exactly it. And it was… you want to make sure you want to do is trust but verify a little bit. But at the same time, it’s also the consistency of it or so that, okay, if someone could do it a couple of times maybe a week, but if every day, there’s some winners in there and the general consensus of what’s going on is in the right direction and it’s pretty accurate, obviously the amount of result or the amount of gain will be different across each one of those picks, but just the fact that they’re all going in the right direction and the timing of it, one to actually pay attention, I think that’s so enormously valuable and it’s real time. And I also got to say, anytime I did sound that chat, someone who chatted something which was just not at the caliber level that either you could tell you or whoever your admin is, immediately I would remove them. There’s no fluff. There’s no fluff. There is no fluff.
Clay: Matt, some people, so just for listeners’ sake, the way the chat room works is, listen, Matt mentioned it earlier, but I am an engineer degree and it’s been drilled into my head, especially as a process engineer that, “Listen Clay, you need to be putting things together in as efficient of… things need to be efficient, Clay. That’s what your job is. That’s why you get a paycheck as a process engineer. Put together a process that’s efficient. Okay?” So yeah, in the chat room. Now we do have one called the Lounge and you can go in there and talk about pretty much whatever. But within the trading pits, it is alerts only. And if you go in there and try to have a conversation, delete, if you go in there and make an alert that breaks the rules, delete. “Clay, you’re a jerk.” I guess so, but I need to operate in efficiency.
Clay: So yes, the room that Matt’s talking about, if you’re to go in there, it’s all alerts. And if you try to strike up a conversation, your conversation will be deleted and you will be referred to the Lounge where you can have that conversation. But yes, I try to run a tight ship, but I’m playing the innocent card here. I’m going to blame everybody that taught me when I was getting my engineering degree. “Clay, efficiency, efficiency, because that’s just…” So I take no part of that. That was just drilled into my head.
Clay: But yeah, some people appreciate that like you do, Matt. Other people I think are like, “You’re a jerk. Why can’t we have a conversation?” Well, just not in that room. But you can’t please everybody, I guess is the moral of that story. But all right, well, you mentioned that you did this for two months before you got some real money involved. When you did get real money involved, was your approach, were you looking to be doing swing trading or were you looking to be doing day trading? I guess pick it up from that point where you made the comment that you were going to start to introduce your own money into the market.
Matt: Sure. The first thing I said to myself is, “Okay, what did I do wrong last time? And let’s never do that again.” I knew I had some… took these courses and I felt like the community of people there. I would get up in the morning. I’m in Arizona, right? So it’s Mountain Standard time. So at nine o’clock in the morning, which is 6:00 AM here, I’d get up and I’d look at this channel and think to myself, I’m going to get in and out. Using this sort of stock picks and the actual alerts that are going on, that half hour to 40 minutes before six o’clock, at 6:30, then from 6:30 to 6:45. That just seems to be where the most amount of action is to get in and to get out.
Matt: Then, of course, there’s the $25,000 you’ve got to have collateral to actually become a day trader. So I said I’m not really ready for that yet. In fact that would be, you have the money to do it, but that would be stupid to think that I can do that successfully right away without ever actually warming up to that level. I mean, that’s a good way to go broke, like take 25 grand and then take a bunch of other money and start thinking that you’re a day trader right away because I’ve done a few charts. No. Much better sort of test out what works for me and what I feel confident and comfortable doing. So, that’s what I did is I could make, I knew I could make three trades a week, on day one [inaudible 00:37:05] because the cash settles two days after those. And that’s what I did. I woke up, I looked at those alerts and did my homework. I got in typically like two or three minutes before the market opened.
Matt: I never even considered pre-market trade. I didn’t even know. I thought that that option didn’t exist for just institutional traders. Like it was incredible. You just learn what’s possible, especially when you talk to people who used to trade 10 or 20 years ago. I mean, the amount of flexibility, freedom and how cheap it is to do so now I think it’s just good to have some historical context. I knew that what I was doing was kind of where I should be. So somewhat informed, be able to make my own decision, have a plan, and that plan is getting a few minutes before the market opens, get out within at least 20 minutes or so from 6:30 to 10 to 7:00, or rather 10 to 10:00 in East Coast time, because that’s when all that action happens. It’s not all that action, that’s a blanket statement, but that’s when a lot of the morning action happens.
Matt: And that has worked for me. So that’s sort of the strategy that I use now. And I got to say I love it. I mean, it’s a great start to your day, especially when you start to see those green numbers, right now the red numbers, and you do feel, and I hate to use the word feel. I like second. I’m like referring 11 years would feel. But it’s a better approach than the one I took before. So this has worked for me.
Clay: I know what you mean by feel though. I mean, the feeling is coming from a sense of confidence. I mean, it’s good to feel confident is I think what you’re probably saying there to which I would agree. That is a good feeling to have as long as it’s a confidence based in reality.
Matt: Yeah, grounded in reality.
Clay: There you go.
Matt: Exactly, yeah.
Clay: And you are grounded in reality because, well, it’s not like Matt from the UGAZ days. It’s definitely a much different approach now. Are you still using e-trade right now?
Matt: Yeah.
Clay: Okay. They’re down to $0 commissions too these days?
Matt: It doesn’t cost a cent. I mean, going to talk to people before that they would do it 10 or 20. I mean, it would be dollars a trade. You couldn’t even trade everything, all the different products. So, I think having some historical deal of where you are and actually execution of stuff is important. I mean, how long have you been doing this Clay?
Clay: Oh, no. I mean-
Matt: I mean, trades how much do they cost?
Clay: I mean, I’ll say this. I did a video, I don’t know, year and a halfish ago about e-trade. The whole idea was, “Listen, e-trade is, it’s a rip off. 10 bucks to buy, 10 bucks to sell.” And like I said, this video was like, let’s just make it two years. I’m pretty sure it was more recent than that. But even within the last two years, e-trade used to be. 10 bucks to buy 10 bucks to sell. So think about that. You were in a $20 hole right off to get go. That is insane. And then, I mean, I talked with the old timers that were back in the 90s and they were like, oh yeah, you’d have to call your broker, and it was just crazy, crazy fees. The charts would show up in like books and stuff like this. So from that point of view, that’s where I really have a great appreciation as a technical trader is, wow, I can’t please people and literally have to wait for books and for the technical charts to show up.
Clay: These days I sit down in my underwear at my computer, I log into this thing called the internet and I type in four ticker symbols and I hit enter. And then poof, in a second, the technical chart pops up. Wow. We are living in just magical and mystical days as far as I’m concerned. And then yes, as of the past year, year and a half with the whole broker wars, now $0 million commissions is basically the bar, which is crazy. And to your point also, future’s Forex, crypto, stocks options. I mean, a lot of these brokers have, you can do all of them at one shop. So it really is crazy. Now, timeline wise, how long ago did you start this? What you explained as far as your, we’ll call it your real money strategy.
Matt: Yeah, sure. I think about four months ago is when I exited UGAZ. That took a month to sort of get up to speed on learning through your program. So let’s say three months. I mean, I still consider myself like a baby or a newb, but at least somewhat more informed than I was before.
Clay: And I guess at the end of the day, well, two questions. It sounds like your account has been growing. Is that a fair statement?
Matt: Yes.
Clay: Okay. And my next question would be, have you had any losing trades or losing days over the past three months?
Matt: So it used to be, that was one key benchmark I would look at just historically. Every week it would be, if I did four, there might be one that I had made a loss, but I was very quick to exit it. And that was one, I would write it down the different sort of, I guess your answer, I don’t want to call them psychological tricks, but for me it was, I heard a good piece of advice. Be really quick to get out of losing trades. Don’t have any patience with them. That was one thing with UGAZ I did terribly wrong. I just kept going down.
Clay: Too much patience.
Matt: Yeah. And like hope thinking that it’s going to come back because I wanted to. I mean, come on. So, that was one. In the beginning it wasn’t even so much how much money can I make or how many days or positive, it was having the discipline to get out of the losers. And so for a month of that, it was still like four in one. I mean four good, one bad, but the one bad that I got out of, I was very quick to snip it. And then nowadays I would say, I don’t want to give a blanket statement to how, I don’t want to say how good the filtering is in that channel, but I would say the overwhelming majority of days is positive. Yes.
Clay: Okay. I just asked that because one of the questions I always get in, I mean, you seem like a brutally honest upfront guy. I mean, I was going to have to press you on the fact that maybe your strategy is potentially fool’s gold because you’ve only been doing it for three months, it sounds like. And if you were to have answered… so of course let’s just see if it’s growing. It was. So then the second part of the potential needing to maybe rain on your parade was, well, about the losses. And had you said there, “Look, I haven’t had any losses, or I’ve had one.” Then that would have been a massive red flag. Are you sure this is a viable strategy or are you just breaking a bunch of rules and that you’re continuing to get lucky and you’re just waiting to get hammered by a train.
Clay: But Matt, I mean, no, you’ve had. Like you said, you’ve had lots of losses. So that tells me that you definitely have a strategy that’s viable, that’s working because you’ve come across losses. You’ve had losing days and those don’t wipe away all your gains. It’s not like one day takes away 20 days of gains or it’s not like a one trade takes away all of the past trades you’ve made and puts you back at breakeven or puts you into the red. Your account is growing with losses mixed in. So in other words, that’s my long way of saying, it sounds like you’re doing a very good job of managing risk.
Matt: Yeah. I could tell you’re sort of leading the witness circle.
Clay: Let me translate that. “Clay, you’re not as sly as you think you are buddy.” I thought I was being sly but maybe not. I appreciate the critique, Matt. Now I know I need to work on my slyness with how I approach the witness. But in other words, stay out of the law room clay. All right. Fair enough. Well played, sir. I appreciate that. Okay. But continue on.
Matt: No, I think, especially for a discussion like this, it is really important to keep in mind that there is an audience and, yeah, if you had someone on that gave this really rosy outlook on everything, I mean, of course people are going to be a little skeptical. So let’s say that for someone who is very new but has taken some of your courses to understand a little bit about how to think for yourself and make decisions. Yeah, in the beginning it shouldn’t be dreams of glory that you’re going to be making all this money. For me the beginning was having the discipline to get out when I was losing money to make sure that that was a constant just sort of mental discipline because the more you get involved, and this is me. I’m already pontificating, like, oh, the more you get involved.
Matt: But I would say my own learning process with it is as I start to get more success and more days where it was green and more confidence grew, you do want to let it slip a little more. You do want to let it ride, but now I’ve adopted more don’t be greedy. I guess that’s how, and especially in this beginning stage for me, don’t be greedy, sell out of your position without thinking it’s going to go and actually, “No, no. Don’t be greedy.” And two, when it starts to fail, be really quick to get out, be very impatient with them.
Matt: So, those two things I guess helped me. And for anyone listening who’s sort of new to the game, yeah, just like I said, I mean, you’re living in a time where you’re able to execute and you have a lot of power to do things by yourself, and I’m just encouraging, have a little bit of discipline in the beginning to make sure that any trade that isn’t going well, don’t hope it’s going to go back up. And two, don’t be greedy, especially in the beginning.
Clay: I like the way you went down that a little bit more detailed because I get it. Yeah, as a sound bite, that’s fantastic. Don’t be greedy. But in all actuality, I mean, what does that even mean to be greedy. But you’re right and you’ve noticed that the more success you seem to get, you want to get a little bit looser. You want to get a little bit looser. That is greed. That is greed. That is what he means by greed is, and that’s, I can relate. I mean, it still get me every now and then. You go on a little bit of a wind streak and it’s like, “Wow, yeah. There’s another one. Okay. There’s another one.” And then all of a sudden, those rigid rules start to, they start to get some cracks and then they get a little bit more flexible and then they start swaying in the wind. That’s greed. That is greed.
Matt: They start to melt away.
Clay: Yes, exactly. That’s what greed does. It melts away the rigid boundaries of a system that is proven to work, and it doesn’t even… I mean, when I said it doesn’t make sense, like why would you break the rules of something that works. I don’t know, because of greed, and it melts away those rigid things, I guess. And as I always say, I realized Matt and I, we probably sound like nutcases talking about all this sort of stuff. We probably sound like morons. Like, well, why would you break the rules of something that works? I mean, if it works to look both ways when you cross the street, why would you stop that? And you’re right. That’s all plausible, but that’s not how the human mind works. You just can’t relate to this sort of stuff unless you’ve ever had any real money on the trade in the market.
Clay: So all Matt and I can do is you can heed our warnings. You can listen from our just rambling on it or to use Matt’s way, pontificating about this stuff. Or you can not trust us, go do it on your own. And then all I ask is, “Oh yeah, I guess Matt and Clay were being honest. There are a bunch of voices that live in my head that want to make me do stupid things.” Which reminds me, how do you deal from the mental, the psychology… I get your approach is, don’t be patient with something going against you. But when you do take those losses, how does that affect you mentally? I mean, does it not affect you? Or if it does, can you share any sort of mind tricks that maybe you use to help you just get over it and keep on moving? Because some people, and that’s probably the hardest part about dealing with trading for most people is not only necessarily taking the loss, but then after you take the loss, how to respond to it. I mean, how are you doing in that department of things?
Matt: Yeah, it’s called have a good job. Have a good job that makes the money. But I would say, no, I get all this [inaudible 00:49:22]. But I get what you mean that there’s a lot of psychology in this from the little that I’ve partaken in it. But that was one of the things I enjoyed about your core structure is that it’s sort of emotionless. Okay? Don’t let yourself get emotional about what’s going on. That mindset can actually be very hazardous. And yeah, I mean, if you take losses and you feel very personally about them, it’s probably going to not incentivize you to take much more risk in the future, which means you could miss out on opportunities.
Matt: So with losses, one, the money I’m kind of talking about here isn’t like I’m dumping my 401k into this stuff or I’m cashing out in one of my homes and putting that money in big trades. I’m sure, yeah, if that happened and I took a loss, that’d be a different guy sitting here talking to you, I may probably cry my face off. But the losses that I’ve had haven’t been enough to really trigger something like that. And I guess maybe you could say that’s the risk management. I don’t-
Clay: No, no, no. I got to stop, not guess. What Matt is describing is like one of the golden pillars to trading is if you are not comfortable with the money that is at risk, like truly comfortable, trading will never work. It will never work. I don’t care if you are the best chart reader. I don’t care if you have the best system, the best strategy ever, if you’re looking at numbers and those numbers are causing you to absolutely freak out because what we would say in trading your position size is too big, then Matt is describing perfectly why he’s able to handle it because he’s not selling a home. He’s not like mortgaging his home. He’s not putting his 401k all on the line.
Clay: No, he is dealing with monies where if it disappears, he pretty much is like, who cares? It is what it is. And that’s where you need to be. That’s the magic of position sizing, where you need to look at an amount and you need to ask yourself, okay, if that amount of money disappears, how do I feel about it? As an example, well, actually I’m going to do this with Matt right now. So Matt, if you are going to take a loss and you’re going to be in a losing trade, what would that amount be? I mean, if I told you that you could lose $100 in a trade, what would that do for you mentally?
Matt: Okay. No, that’s a good question. Under me is anything under 200 bucks. Meaning if I take anything under a…. no loss that extends beyond $200.
Clay: Okay. So for Matt, his position size is all going to be based around something where he needs to be able to look at it and say, okay, well, if I take that loss and that’s going to be more than $200, well, that’s going to tell him, I should probably buy less shares then. Or maybe he’s not buying enough. Or if it’s like, well, if it moves down that amount, I would still be okay. So maybe I can even buy a little bit more shares. But for Matt, his number, which he’s going to base everything else around as far as position sizing is concerned is that $200 mark, which is again so vital because, I mean, this is exactly why. I mean, I’m not a clinical psychologist, but Matt consider and say, “Yeah, I mean, I don’t start throwing chairs around the room or I don’t start to cry or I don’t start to go kick the dog because I take a loss.” Well, because he’s totally okay with it.
Clay: I would venture a guess that if you, as a trader, you’re struggling, you can’t quite stay in a trade long enough or you get out and then it goes in your favor, just try reducing position size. I have a sneaky suspicion that you just have too much in the trade, meaning your risk is too high. You could potentially lose more money than you’re comfortable with. But yeah, I would say, Matt, you absolutely nailed. Oh yeah, you said, well, I guess you could say that’s a position size. And I took offense to the word guess because no, you absolutely nailed it. It is all about risk management and position sizing. Where did that $200 number come from? Did you always know that number or were that kind of a number that you just had to kind of feel out and realize, “Oh yeah, I definitely don’t like to lose more than that.” Where does that number actually come from for you?
Matt: It’s a bandwidth, right? Just from experience and the little that I have. So on one end of the bandwidth is the minus $4,000 “made with UGAZ”. Right? So it’s like one end of it. And the other end of it was, okay, maybe I am getting out of this stuff a little too early. But in the morning when I do these trades, you either know pretty quick if it’s going up or going down. I don’t wait half or an hour or two a day to see which way in order to feel it out. No, I’m in or out pretty quick. I hit 200 and any day I went over 200 I was like, I would look back and think, not feeling with it just was that the right decision based upon the data.
Matt: It just seemed like anything that was 200 or more, yeah, it should have gotten out earlier. I shouldn’t have waited and I should have stuck to the strategy that I had. So yeah, I would say that it’s a bandwidth to feel it out. Everyone’s obviously different. But for me, that was just a number that, I don’t know if it made sense. And anytime I did one over more than that, it was because I had not stuck to the strategy that I had beforehand.
Clay: Okay. That makes a lot of sense. The linchpin here that I am really starting, I mean, it’s already been coming through, but continues to come through that much more is, listeners, Matt is putting in a lot of work. Matt is reflecting on trades. Matt is going back and essentially reverse engineering trades. He is digging into the details about all the trades he’s made. That’s a lot of work, that takes time. That takes effort. Yeah, it does, right? I mean, I get it. It’s easier to sign up for a, “Listen. I’ll give you all my hot stock picks. I’ll just text them to you while you’re on the golf course.” Yeah. That sounds great. But sorry, you got to think for yourself, you got to put in the effort and work. What were you going to say, Matt?
Matt: Well, I was just going to mention, yeah, that’s important, but it goes both ways and you almost hit… I mean, this isn’t like sponsored or anything, but you are on that chat channel every day. You actually see the person that has this education doing it, that’s actively involved and like clearly taking risks themselves. So that is good accountability when you are learning something, is that, sure, I might be working, but you’re also doing the same thing. You’re managing all this stuff and you’ve been doing it for decades and you’re there still every single day in the morning making these trades and sitting on that computer for a couple of hours. So, there is always that other trade off that you see the person actually doing it themselves. So, why would I have any excuses not to be more informed?
Clay: That’s true, but I think you would also agree though that you are still looking back on things, you are still having to do some things on your part to have, for example, arrived at that $200 number, right? So I don’t want to come across like, “Hey, I’m in this room with Clay and he’s there and that everything’s…” That’s all that happens. No, I want to definitely drive home, but you’re definitely putting in time and effort and blood sweat and tears on your end too, right?
Matt: Yeah. And I think it’s also just a curriculum. You have to look, no, you don’t want to pontificate. You’re winding me up. I think, yeah, it’s important to reassess and have some historical data to go off and write things down on what actually happened that day and why you made a certain decision.
Clay: I fully agree. I think this is probably good and I mean, we’re approaching an hour, which is where I want to be. I mean, let me ask you this though. Do you ever talk in the Lounge or anything or you’re just hanging out?
Matt: No, I don’t think I’ve said one word on that chat.
Clay: What, you too good for us or what? What’s the problem here?
Matt: No. It’s I’m not at a level really-
Clay: Well, you can’t say you’re not at a level to say, “Hi, my name’s Matt. I live in Arizona.” You can’t say that?
Matt: I would say at 5:45 in the morning, the last thing you’re thinking about is making friends.
Clay: Fair point. Fair point. My wife would be like, “Oh wow. You and Matt would get along, Clay.” Yeah, there were that comment. No, I got you there. That’s more than fair, but of course, just giving you a hard time. Do what works for you, and it sounds like this is what is working for you. And that’s awesome. What I love is how you’re still calling yourself a newb even though you’re seeing account growth, you’re managing the risk rate, but you certainly did learn from the UGAZ experiment where you were not, now all of a sudden walking around thinking you got it all figured out. You’re being very cautious.
Clay: It’s amazing how when people get cautious, get serious, stay humble, still call themselves a newb, accounts start to grow. So that’s a beautiful thing. That’s a great thing. And hopefully you’ll be willing to come back at the future and update us on things. But before we wrap thing, Oh, I got to ask you about the time machine. If I could give you that time machine and you could take the time machine back to the start of all this and give yourself one bit of advice, what would that bit of advice be? And you can’t say don’t buy UGAZ.
Matt: Man, like literally a time machine comes, I’d jump into it and I’d go back to the time right before I booked a trader, right before-
Clay: Just before, I mean at the start, what is one thing that you would maybe change up, one bit of advice you’d give yourself.
Matt: Yeah. Don’t listen to people at work. Do your own homework.
Clay: There you go. That’s what the advice I would say is do your own homework. Well, a lot of times people try to get sly and be like, well, I’d go back and I’d buy Microsoft in the 1980s. It’s like, no, that’s not what I mean. But you get it. Do your own homework. Well said. That’s definitely a great bit of advice. All right. Well, let’s move into the fun questions here. Matt, what is your favorite movie?
Matt: Oh man. I wasn’t expecting this. Off the top of my head, probably Braveheart, Gradius or something like that.
Clay: Nice. Nice. I can get behind both those movies, especially Braveheart. That’s Uncle Argyle, man. That guy’s the man.
Matt: The one with the milky eye?
Clay: Yeah, man. Remember the scene where little William’s looking at a sword and he gives him his sword and then he pulls the sword back and he says, first learn to use this, and he taps him on the head. And then he says, then I’ll teach you to use this. And he holds up the sword. That’s like a life changing scene. That’s like life explained right there. Learn to use your head before you go out there and start swinging a sword around. There’s so many parallels to trading there that’s, it’s ridiculous. Do you remember that scene?
Matt: Yeah, I do. I have a bunch of older brothers, so whatever they would watch or like listen to, I thought it was cool.
Clay: When’s the last time you watched Braveheart?
Matt: Over a decade.
Clay: Okay. Well, you need to watch it again and I want you to look for that scene and you’ll be like, that movie is about trading. That scene is pure trading. That is, I mean, straight out of any sort of, if you want to learn how to trade, watch that scene. But all right. What about food? What’s your favorite food?
Matt: Anything.
Clay: Anything?
Matt: Anything that’s cooked for me.
Clay: Okay. So you’re not high maintenance at all then in that regard.
Matt: No.
Clay: I’ll take it. We kind of sound similar in that. I mean, you got to give… if you had just one meal, one.
Matt: Like a full meal? Like what would it be?
Clay: Just one food, one type of food.
Matt: Probably just a good [ruba 01:01:14].
Clay: There you go. A steak. Okay. Okay. That’s best pure America right there. I’ll take it. I’ll take it. And then final question, three words, and these three words would be what you would describe or use to associate with a successful trader or what it takes to be successful. What would those three words be?
Matt: I can tell you what it’s not, maybe that’s a better way.
Clay: There, I will take that. That’s the first twist we’ve ever done there. So three words that it’s not, do that.
Matt: Impatient, delusional and someone who didn’t take this wonderful course. That is more than three words but-
Clay: Uneducated.
Matt: Uneducated, yeah.
Clay: Hey, that was a good twist. I might have to start to ask that now every now and then to spice things up a little bit. I like calling the audible there, that’s some good stuff. Well, Matt, I had a great talk and I wanted to thank you. You volunteered to be here and for listeners’ sake, Matt and I were sitting here on a Saturday morning. So I mean, this is how awesome the community is. People are willing to take some time out of their weekend, out of a Saturday morning to talk with a goofball like me. So, I mean, that’s the quote. I mean, that’s great stuff, Matt. So, I mean, thank you so much for volunteering to be here. And like I said, on a Saturday morning, I appreciate it.
Matt: No, I appreciate you having me. Yeah, it could be you too they want to listen. It was just an email that said, “Hey, we need some people to take on a podcast.” I said I’d love to, and it was just simple as that.
Clay: And here we are just shooting the breeze on a Saturday morning. And if you’re in Arizona, what time is it there? Eight o’clock right now.
Matt: Oh, 7:07.
Clay: Wait, what time did… we start at nine, which puts it at, what time did we start this for you?
Matt: It was about 6:00 in the morning.
Clay: 6:00 in the morning, on a Saturday. Oh, wow. Whew. See Matt, that’s the type of people we have! I just want to say I started to do the math in my head. Wait, Matt said he’s in Arizona, I’m in Michigan. Wow. An extra thank you then to be here at 6:00 in the morning on a Saturday morning. That’s good stuff, Matt. So thank you very much, and we’ll have to have you back for sure. So Matt, thank you again. I really appreciate it.
Matt: And I Appreciate it. Thanks Clay.
Clay: Now, for you listeners out there before we go, a final few things. If you are listening on iTunes or any of our other podcasts or players, please subscribe that way you are notified when new episodes are released. And especially on iTunes, if you could leave us a rating or better yet a written review, that goes a long way and would help us out. I thank you in advance for that. And like I said, just little things like that. Let us know that, hey, please keep making these podcasts. Like I said, even if it’s just a rating, ideally five stars on iTunes that would help us out, but a written review even better.
Clay: If you’re listening at, on the show notes page, there’s a little live chat box in the bottom right hand corner. You can click on that and reach out to us with comments, questions, suggestions, whatever. But I always love to hear from a message where it starts off saying, “Hey, I listen to the podcast. Nothing better than that.” So I do love to hear from you as listeners. So thank you again to Matt. Thank you to all of you as listeners. And we will see you back next week.
Announcer: This has been the Stock Trading Reality Podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the ClayTrader community, including the trading team, premium training and more, visit

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