LIVE WEBINAR: 1 Hour Trader Transformation

73 Days. Only 1 Losing Day. Possible? Yes! Let Me Show You...

This Free Event Reveals: How I transformed myself from an employee to being my own boss (and how you can too, even with no experience!)

Thursday - December 2nd - @ 7:00 pm est

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It’s amazing how a single three letter word can make such a difference. When you look at life through the lens of “how”, it opens up so many more potential opportunities for yourself. My guest from the community, Judd (“juddw” in the chatroom), is a shining example of just how powerful the word “how” can be. It has already served him well with life in general, but it continues to serve him nicely with his trading journey. Judd has been swing trading now for an extended period of time with success, but for the sake of establishing more income streams, he has since turned his focus to learning the skill of day trading. Judd and I talk about a variety of items, all of which can be (and should be) applied to your approach to trading and life in general. Let’s go!

Transcript

Clay: Hey, It’s Clay. Real quick, before I get at the episode, I want to talk about something that I get asked all the time. “Clay, what broker do you suggest? What platform is the best one out there?” While that’s always subjective, one thing that I can say is, as somebody that loves technical charts, and as a technical trader, needs quality charts so that I can make good decisions, the one aspect that I would definitely say matters to me and should matter to you, especially like I said if you do choose to be a technical trader, is a quality platform that gives you good visually appealing charts.
Clay: That’s why I always recommend Webull to people. Because, they are a situation where not only are they very budget friendly, meaning there’s no commissions, there’s no fees. That’s for both options and stocks. So, if you’re somebody with a smaller account and really is commission conscientious, and you don’t want to be paying and giving away all your gains with fees, then Webull, like I said, offers the zero-dollar commissions. But they also have really quality charts, which is important for the reasons, like I said, I discussed. But, if you are curious in seeing the platform, seeing how it behaves, seeing how it all looks, then I’d encourage you to go to claytrader.com/webull. Again claytrader.com/webull.
Clay: That way you can see how they behave. Maybe for your eye, you’re not necessarily going to like what they see. And that’s okay. But, I think they offer some very, very quality technical charts. It’s a nice platform. Very customizable. But again, if you’re curious and if you’re out there wondering maybe looking to change from a broker or a platform that you’re not happy with for whatever reason, again, consider Webull, and again claytrader.com/webull. So, W-E and then bull. Webull.
Clay: Then like I said, I have a little video review there that you can check things out. Like I said, check out Webull. I think you’ll like what you see there if you like the technical charts. Let’s now move onto the actual episode.
Clay: This is the Stock Trading Reality podcast, episode 291.
Announcer: This is the Stock Trading Reality podcast. Where you get to see the realistic side of trader’s journey. Get inspired and stay motivated by everyday normal people who are currently on their journey to trading success. And, this is your host. Need a history lesson, talk to his daughter, Joy. Clay Trader.
Clay: Yeah, all you really have to do is describe a period, describe what was going on during that period and odds are she’ll be able to tell you, “Oh, that’s the Great Depression. Oh, that’s World War II. Oh, that’s that Civil War.” Shout out to, I’m not sure who the author is, but these American Girl books. It’s a series, and each girl has their own story, but then these stories are going on through different periods of actual history.
Clay: It’s a fantastic way to sink in. My daughter. She’s, like I sad, you’ve just really got to describe what’s going on. “People, the stock market had crashed, lot of people lost their jobs. It was just a very economic time. Things were not good.” “Oh, is that like the Great Depression?” “Yeah, exactly.” “Oh, well such and such girl,” whatever her name is, “That story was during the Great Depression.” Props to the author, like I said, fantastic way for the kids to learn more about history.
Clay: But yeah, that’s one of her topics that she likes to just talk. “Hey, dad. Do you want to talk about history? What’s your favorite time in history? What’s your favorite war?” “I like the Civil War.” “Oh, Emily. She was during the Civil War when I read about that.” It’s a great conversation starter, but if you ever need some history, need a little lesson, I’m sure Joy would be more than capable of helping you out.
Clay: As for our episode today, this is two in a row. Last week, we talked to Anton, and I made the comment about Anton is one of those guys where if you’re somebody that goes through life not really … You like to make excuses. You like to focus on why you can’t do things, you want to like Anton. But, now we have Judd. Judd is another guy where if you’re somebody that’s out there seeking excuses, seeking why you can’t get ahead, why you can’t do this, that or the other, then that’s going to be probably two weeks in a row now that you’re not going to really like my guests.
Clay: Because, Judd is a hustler, is a grinder. He goes out there and gets stuff done. In fact, we start off the whole talk … I take us down a rabbit hole that really just applies to life in general. It’s definitely applicable to trading too, because just kind of the mindset, the mentality, the attitude pertains to trading. But, he’s done very well in life. He’s doing very well. His trading is progressing like it should we have all sorts of fantastic conversations. We jumped down a bunch of different rabbit trails.
Clay: But, his story is fantastic. Lots of learning lessons from it. He’s done lots of things right. He’s had some hiccups like we’ve all had along the way. But let’s just get to it. Without further ado, let’s hear about Judd and his journey. Judd, welcome to the show.
Judd: For having me.
Clay: Now, I will admit, I like you quite a bit. You just told me that you’re not quite feeling the best, but here you are. You’re sucking it up. You’re still going to do the interview, so I really appreciate you doing what you’ve got to do so that listeners can have content and listeners can ideally learn, hopefully learn. I don’t know. Maybe this will be the worst thing ever, maybe this will be the best thing ever. But, for you listeners out there, if this is the first episode you’ve ever listened to, the idea here is just to keep it real. To keep it genuine. This is not scripted.
Clay: I know Judd, I have roundabout ideas, because he’s relatively active in the chatroom community. But, as far as nitty gritty details about his story, I’m just as ignorant as you are right now, listeners. But that’s the idea. I just want you to come along for the journey and be a fly on the wall of our coffee shop or wherever this conversation, wherever you think it might take place. Let’s just sit back and see where the conversation takes us. But, let’s start off the conversation.
Judd: Heck, yeah.
Clay: You said you’ve listened to past episodes. You know what question here is coming. But, where did all this start for you? Where did you hear about the markets? What sort of things played out. And what eventually led you to the point where you’re like, “You know what? Enough hearing about this stuff. I want to get more active with it.”
Judd: Yeah. So, to start with the markets, I probably have to go way back. I think me and you are pretty close to the same age. You’re younger than me. Back in 1999, that’s when I graduated from high school. Straight out of high school, I got a really good job working for Sears.
Judd: Moved up the chain pretty quick there, in a matter of a couple months. Had a really good boss there. I’m the kind of guy, I’m a hustler. I’ll get out there. I’ll work hard. I catch onto stuff pretty quick. Got a big promotion. Just trying to make a long story short here. My boss, at the time with Sears was-
Clay: Actually, I’ve got to cut you off. Because, I can see people wondering, and it’s a good question to be wondering. Is, “I want to be a beast at work. I want to be a hustler. I want to be a grinder.” And you’ve got this promotion. I want to, because I’m curious too. How did you get that promotion? Obviously, you did good at work.
Clay: But, do you have any insights into what you were doing or why you think you got that promotion, how you worked yourself up the chain that quickly? Sure, this isn’t maybe trading related, but I think it’s life related. Do you have any additional in depth comments on that?
Judd: Yeah, so I could even go back further than that. Mom and dad were always really good with money. I can say I’ve always been good … I grew up with where mom and dad were really good with money. Believe it or not, my dad hates the stock market. Never sank a dime into that thing. I think back in ’82 or ’83, my dad, he lost like 30 grand or something like that. “I’ll never sink another dime into that thing.” So, dad was always good with cash.
Judd: I’ve always grew up where if you work hard in life, pick up every extra shift. If the boss asks you for anything, just go to work, pick up extra shifts, be willing to learn. Stay after. Go home on your own time and study what you do. I can honestly say … I used the analogy as a college athlete. And listen, we’ll just talk life here for a second.
Judd: Use the analogy of a college athlete. The kid in high school that’s a good football player that he just goes to practice and does his thing, that’s the kid that’s probably not going to get a scholarship. But the kid that goes home after practice and hits the gym for another three hours, and studies all weekend, those are the guys that make it. I use this analogy with just anybody. Anybody that has a job. If you’re willing to learn and go the extra step and study your line of work, whatever it may be and get good at it, study the next guy’s job.
Judd: How do I get that guy’s promotion? How can I move up to that next step? Learn his job too. Back to working at Sears, and literally in a matter of three months started out busting tires. After about a month, I was over helping … When I had nothing to do, I would go help the other technicians out on the other side of the show, changing breaks, doing wheel alignments. Just that kind of stuff. The nitty gritty work, the work that pays well.
Judd: So, back to working at Sears. I would go over there and do that kind of stuff, and one day, literally this is how it played out. Got called off on the other side of the shop, a break technician. We’re getting backed up with break work. I asked my boss. “I’ll go over there and help out.” “You sure you know what you’re doing?” “I know what I’m doing.” Went over there and helped.
Judd: Literally, the following week, they put me on the other side of the shop, just as kind of a test run. Worked out really well. They wanted to move me over there full time. They wrote a number down and said, “Hey, this is what you’re going to be making.” I’ll be honest with you. At 18 years old, I’m making like 20 bucks an hour.
Clay: At 20 bucks an hour, back in what? 1999ish?
Judd: ’99. Yeah.
Clay: That’s a good amount of money. Wow, we’re getting old, Judd. That’s over 20 years ago.
Judd: I’m telling you.
Clay: Oh, man. Well, listen kids, gather around Judd and I’s little fire here. Let us tell you stories about when we were young chaps.
Judd: Right?
Clay: Yeah, wow. $20 an hour. Even now, today $20 an hour is still solid money. But 20 years ago, that’s fantastic. But just for clarity’s sake, it sounds like you were going over there and helping out, and just helping out with the breaks and all that sort of stuff while you were doing your original job. So, you were still getting paid that original job’s pay, right? But you were over there learning about breaks and all that sort of stuff?
Judd: Correct. They gave me a little incentive. I was still making, I think as a tire buster, I was 12.75 and hour, but for ever job I did over there for the week they would pay me that rate. So let’s say a front break job paid you 7.50 in commission, they would pay me that 7.50 in commission. But, that’s for like full break job or a big front break job or a back front. I can’t remember what it is now.
Judd: But moving up, being commission based, you get that pay bump. But the work’s not always there. So you got a base pay, and then you got a commission based on the kind of work you did. On average, I was probably 20, $21 an hour.
Clay: That’s awesome. What I love to hear you say was, “Never once did I hear, ‘I can’t do that.'” Well, insert blank of some sort of negative reason. Literally all you kept saying was, “How? How? How?”
Judd: Right.
Clay: “How can I get a promotion? How can I get my boss’s job? How can I do this?” For people in the world, I can’t stand when it’s always, “I can’t do that. That’s not going to work out.” Instead of saying it’s not going to work out, take the Judd method. Say, “Well, how can it work out?” The word how, it sounds like you would agree, Judd.
Judd: Absolutely.
Clay: The word how is pretty powerful, right? That’s a pretty powerful word.
Judd: How and do. Like, “Yeah, I’m going to do this.” Get in that mindset. There’s no going backwards. I always use the analogy like always go forward in life, with anything. Move forward. You never want to go backwards in life. I’m going to do this. I can do this. I know I can do this. This is not complicated. Put the work in. Put the study in. Even, not that we’re old chaps. I think we’re still pretty good.
Clay: No. I think we’re good. But, it is kind of crazy when we sit here and say-
Judd: 20 years, right?
Clay: “Oh, crap. That was 20 years ago.” Yeah.
Judd: 20 years. But, continued education. You can teach an old dog new tricks. And the bottom line is if you don’t … I was with an old timer the other day. He was probably 65, getting ready to retire. He was telling me all the stuff he’s not going to do. “Yeah, I ain’t going to do that. I ain’t going to do that.” I’m like, “Well, why wouldn’t you want to just continue to educate?” There’s so much out there, just with anything.
Judd: You like bugs? Go learn everything about bugs. You like boats? Go learn everything about boats. Just continued education I think is huge in life. It keeps you sharp. To me, I love to read. I love documentaries. I don’t know. I’m just nerdy like that. I know looking at a picture of me probably you don’t think that way. But, I love continued education.
Judd: But back to my Sears story. This is pretty much how I got started in the market. Got this huge promotion. At this time, I was going to go to college. I was going to go to University of Wyoming. I’m like, “Man, I’m making smoking money. I can just stay here.” And college was going to be paid for. I was going to go there, get a job. My grandma was going to pay for my first semester as a graduation present, blah, blah, blah. So I decided to stay at Sears. I did just the local community college stuff, but man, I was making really good money.
Judd: I think it was December of ’99. It might have been December or early January. It was like the end of the year. Sears came out with this new program. “Hey, for every two stocks that you buy, we will give you one.” My boss pulls me aside. I’m literally the youngest guy working on the other side of the shop. He was like, “Hey, you need to do this.” I’m like, “Okay. What is it?” He told me the program. “As a Sears employee, for every two stocks you buy-”
Clay: Do you mean two stocks or two shares of Sears stock?
Judd: Two shares. Yeah, I’m sorry. Yeah. Yeah, two shares. Yeah, I’m sorry. Yeah. For every two shares of stock you buy, it will equal one. I’m completely naïve. I really envy my boss. He’s done a lot for me. I don’t think he would ever steer me in the wrong direction. So I’m like, “Yeah, cool. Sign me up.” So, he signed me up, and never looked back.
Judd: As a matter of fact, for whatever reason, I used my grandma’s address, and I couldn’t tell you why, to send my W-2s for and everything like that, but I never got a statement of showing how much money I actually … It was probably a good thing. Never got a statement showing how much money. I just know it just came right out of my check.
Judd: I think back then, it wasn’t even expensive. I couldn’t even tell you with the top of my head what it was, but six or seven dollars, or something like that. I don’t know. It wasn’t expensive, I don’t think.
Clay: And for every two shares you bought, Sears gave you another share.
Judd: Yeah. Correct.
Clay: That’s awesome. That’s fantastic. I’m a fan of your boss. Well done on that suggestion. That’s a fantastic perk for employees.
Judd: Yeah, and it was like that window. Like you had to sign up. Like if you didn’t sign up for it, the chances are it probably wouldn’t come back around again. You know? I don’t know. He pretty much just beat it in my … And like I said, I trusted him. He believed in me. He believed in my capabilities.
Judd: I admired him. He said, “Hey, you’re going to do …” He pretty much didn’t give me an option. I looked at him as a father figure. I said, “Okay, whatever you think.” So, moving on from there. Worked there for a while, where there became an opportunity for me to transfer to Arizona, which is where I live. And this is in Indiana. Born and raised in Indiana. Lived there all my life.
Judd: I think I told you. I’m from Valparaiso. Not too far from where you’re at. I used to fish the Saint Joe River all the time. Up in Michigan.
Clay: I’m confused. You’re in Indiana, but how did you consider going to the University of Wyoming? What’s the connection there?
Judd: I didn’t know you was going to ask that. Bottom line, I had the same girlfriend all throughout high school, right?
Clay: Okay, a girl. You can just leave it at that.
Judd: A girl.
Clay: There you go.
Judd: A girl. Just life friends. Obviously, it came to the end. She’s going to college. We were together from freshman to senior. She’s going away. We kind of called it at our senior year and I’m like, “I just want to get away, and I want to go somewhere where there’s just nothing. Let me go to college just out in the middle of nowhere. Middle of the country somewhere.”
Clay: Got you.
Judd: Literally, through a dart and I’m like, “Wyoming it is.”
Clay: And Wyoming is sort of in the middle of nowhere. No offense to those of you in Wyoming. I hear it’s actually quite nice there. But, yeah. That’s a way to get away.
Judd: Right. So just a fresh start in life. I’m one to just kind of … I love to travel. I love to get out. Especially being out here in Arizona. Me and the family, we’ll pack it up and we’ll go up north for a weekend and just go hiking, and fishing and walk. Just get out and go explore. So I’m like, “Why not Wyoming?” Long story short, that’s pretty much the end of the tail of that. Just get rid of everybody and Wyoming it is. You know?
Clay: Did you ever go to Wyoming or no?
Judd: Did not. I did go visit. Yeah. We went there. We saw it and everything. We spent a long weekend there. I’m like, “Cool. This is cool. I can do this. This is where I want to go.” I was going for just a degree, just a basic applied sciences and technology. Just a technology degree. So, from there …
Clay: I totally distracted you. You were actually talking about you growing up in Indiana, and-
Judd: Yeah, so I grew up in Indiana. Yeah. Grew up in Indiana. Northwest Indiana my whole life. So, getting back to Sears, there became an opportunity for me to transfer for a better position in 2005. 2005. So I’ve been at the same place ’99 to 2005. My boss is like, “Hey, hate to see you go. It’s a promotion. You’re going to be making more money.”
Judd: Kind of like a shop manager type deal at that point. So, I’m going to go. Literally, never been to Arizona. Didn’t even come visit or anything. Took the job. Just moved down here all by myself. And man, did it fall apart quick. I did not like the work environment. I did not like my new boss. It just did not pan out.
Clay: That’s not the direction I thought this story was going to go. Okay.
Judd: Yeah, it did not pan out. I literally worked there until the following summer, 2006. I went in there. The culture, it’s a lot different. The work. I’ll say this out loud. Midwest folks, we know how to work. I’m not slamming the West Coast people, but it is definitely a different pace. I’ve owned my own business, and I love hiring military guys and Midwest guys, because they’re trainable, and they work. West Coast guys, I’m not saying you work, but it’s just at a different pace, right?
Clay: Well, they’ve got surfing to do, you moron. What are you talking about? They’ve got surfing and tofu to eat-
Judd: They’ve got stuff to do out here, I guess.
Clay: Come on. I’m just kidding too. I love all the West Coast members, even though sometimes they make bad trades because their keys get stuck together from all the tofu that they have on their fingers.
Judd: Sand.
Clay: Yeah. You have the sand. The saltwater gets into the key. It’s a disastrous situation.
Judd: No, I’m with you. I’m not slamming the West Coat people at all. But, just it was a completely different environment for me. I’m thinking, “I’m going to change this. I’m going to change …” Like, you ain’t changing nothing. You’re one man against 20. The bottom line is it just didn’t work out. So, I left. I pursued a different line of work.
Judd: But when I left, in 2006, I got a phone call. It was Sears corporate office and they said, “Hey, we know you’re no longer …” And I had totally forgot about this stock option thing. Literally. I didn’t even know I was enrolled in it. I got a phone call and says, “Hey, we realize you left the company. Do you want to cash out your shares?” Blah, blah, blah. Because, I was still enrolled in this thing. I’m like, “You know what? I’m just going to cash out. I’m never going back to Sears. I’m just going to cash it out.”
Judd: In 2006, it was like June of 2006, they sent me a check in the mail. When I got it, I was like, “Holy cow. The power of the stock market pretty much-”
Clay: Are you willing to disclose what it was, or at least a broad figure?
Judd: Triple digits.
Clay: Triple digits. That’s actually getting up there-
Judd: Or whatever. Yeah, over … Yeah.
Clay: No, triple digits. That’s good.
Judd: It’s up there. Yeah. I was shocked. Nothing too crazy. Nowadays it’s nothing too crazy, but in 2006, I’m like, “Holy cow. That’s a lot of money.” I was always taught, “Cash is king. Cash is king.” So first thing I did with it, savings account. Didn’t do anything with it. Put it in a savings account.
Judd: Got a new job in a completely different field. I was always big in electronics. I love electronics. I got into a completely different field. I got into the electromechanical field. To make a long story short, there’s a product out there called, the VFDs, if anybody’s listening, you know what a VFD is, a variable frequency drive. I was literally in the electromechanical boom right when those things were crazy expensive to very inexpensive.
Judd: So, long story short, got a new job. Took this gigantic check. Put it in a savings account. Just set it and forget it. At my 1.5% interest rate or whatever it was. At the time, and I had a life plan, like I’m not going to buy a house. I want to be married before I buy a house. I’m perfectly content living in my apartment with some roommates, blah, blah, blah. So I’m just going to set this money aside for my future.
Judd: Didn’t even think about getting back into the stock market at that point. I couldn’t tell you the reasons why. But I was just kind of blown away. Like, “Wow. If you just set some money in some stocks and just let it sit.” And I’m completely naïve. Knowing not that a stock could essentially just, like AOL. Well 2006, “I’m going to put all my money in AOL!” Thank God I didn’t do that, right?
Clay: Yeah. Who ended up buying them? I think Yahoo or something. Yeah, something random like that.
Judd: Right.
Clay: But anyway, yeah. You’re right. Good thing you didn’t do all in on AOL.
Judd: Right. So, bottom line is I put it in a savings account, and then started my brand new career path. I transferred to college out here. Still going to school. Again, with the new job, I’m going to go back to a life situation. Started out just as a grunt. Learned everything I could about this product line, and literally rose to the ranks. Me and another gentleman. We literally took …
Judd: Going back, then the recession hit, 2008 hit, all this jazz. We took a business in 2008 to 2012 from a $1.2 million a year company to a $6 million a year company, in a recession. Small family business, like 45 employees. Pretty much me and this other guy, we rose to the ranks of, we got to the top of our game.
Judd: Then, in 2009, I met my wife. We hit it off. We’re both successful. It was, life is good. We realize we’re probably going to be together. We’re together a year or so. In 2010, we’re serious enough where we’re engaged. We’re going to get a joint bank account. So, this is kind of where it all changed. I go to the bank to transfer money over to get a joint bank account set up and everything like that. It’s this old lady. She saw my savings account and she’s like, “What are you doing with this money?” I said, “Nothing. I’m just going to sit on it for a while until make a nice down payment on a house or whatever it is.” “You need to invest this.” “Okay. What do you think?”
Judd: She was like, “Well, we’ve got these mutual funds that you can invest in and everything like that.” So I’m like, “Okay, let’s take a little bit of the money and throw it in mutual funds.” So, that’s what I did.
Clay: Have you ever heard my story? Do you know my story?
Judd: I think I listened to it.
Clay: It’s basically the exact same.
Judd: Go ahead and refresh it. Yeah.
Clay: I had money from this book selling business I was doing in college, and my wife went to the bank and the teller was basically the exact same thing. They saw this money sitting there and they’re like, “What exactly are you doing? You’re like a very young couple, actually. You have this money. Why is it just sitting there? Why don’t I tell you about this little thing called mutual funds?” My wife came home and I was like, “Oh, yeah. That sounds like something.” I always thought the stock market was for a bunch of geeks and nerds. But I’m like, “Okay, yeah.”
Judd: Right?
Clay: “We’ll set up a meeting with this banker and learn about mutual funds.” That’s funny. It’s almost the exact same thing there.
Judd: I did not know that. Yeah. Same scenario. It was this old lady. I did it right then and there and I’m like, “Okay, what do you think?” She laid out some options. I’m like, “Here’s what I’m going to do. I’ll give you like 15% of this money, and let’s go ahead and put it in mutual funds,” because I’m still a little leery. I’m a self educator. Now I need to know. Now I need to know. So I go home and I start reading about mutual funds, and start just looking at mutual funds, then doing all the research.
Judd: You want to pick mutual funds that out perform the S&P but don’t kill you on their commission side of it, blah, blah. I’m like, “Man, this is complicated stuff. So, educated myself. I think I got to the point where I was pretty comfortable with like, “I’m going to try to do this myself.” Open up an E*TRADE account. Open up an E*TRADE account. Still don’t dabble in the stocks. I find a couple really good mutual funds that I’m still in right now that are just fantastic. That just out perform the S&P. They just do really well.
Clay: Are you willing to share what those are?
Judd: Yeah, let me pull up the ticker symbols here. I have two really good ones.
Clay: Is one of them the Contrafund by any chance? No, wait. That’s Fidelity, I think. Were these E*TRADE type mutual funds? Or, wait. Does E*TRADE have their own mutual funds?
Judd: I think I’m in a E*TRADE mutual fund. Let me see.
Clay: As he looks, neither of us are financial advisers. This is all for educational entertainment purposes only.
Judd: Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Clay: So, we are not saying to go and buy these. I’m just asking out of curiosity.
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: But, Judd is not a financial professional in any sense of the word. So, there we go. There’s our legal disclaimers out of the way there.
Judd: Yeah, I appreciate that. Don’t hop right in, right? TRBCX and AKREX. Those are just the mutual funds that, they’re done really well for me.
Clay: This is from way back then until now, you still hold, right?
Judd: Correct. Yeah.
Clay: Very nice. Very nice.
Judd: Yeah. So, did you pull up the tickers?
Clay: I did. Yeah. I’m looking at the T. Rowe price. Blue Chip Growth Fund is the TRBCX one. But, yeah, that would make sense over the years. If it’s just doing blue chips growth, it sounds like it’s been growing.
Judd: Yeah, so those are the two that I got into those and pretty much just let them ride out. Haven’t touched them. Don’t dabble in them. That’s kid’s college fund. That’s retirement money. That’s … Yeah. So, those were the ones that I really liked. Then, let’s see. That was 2012 that I got into those.
Judd: Then, I started looking into what’s better than … Read like randomly Yahoo News or whatever, like ETFs, “Check out ETFs. They’re going to be the next big thing.” I really didn’t. I stuck with the mutual funds, just because I felt safe and confident with those. So I got into some mutual funds. I still have a pile of cash just sitting in a savings account, and then took like 25% of the money I had in there, put it in my own mutual funds. Kind of let it sit there.
Clay: Can I try to finish your story, out of curio-
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: I’m curious how similar our stories are. So, mine wasn’t on the stock market. You go into a bank. The lady says, “Hey, you have cash sitting here. Let’s get it into a mutual fund, the stock market.”
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: Now all of a sudden, you’re starting to pay more attention to the stock market. Right?
Judd: Correct.
Clay: So you took some of that money and you’re like, “Well, I want to get more into this, so I’m going to go do some more mutual funds on my own.
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: So you did that, right?
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: The first couple mutual funds, they came from the banker, I would assume. Right?
Judd: Yes. Yeah. And it was with their bank. That was Bank of America. So, it was with them. I couldn’t even pull up the ticker symbols and let you know what they were. It’s just like an investment-
Clay: Well, something where they were getting fees. Right? Let’s just call it like it is.
Judd: Yes.
Clay: Yeah. Something where they were making money.
Judd: They’re definitely making their money. They’re making their share.
Clay: Okay, so so far, I’m like a prophet here. Because, so that gets you interested. They put you in their product. You were like, “Well, I want to get more hands-on, and so you go and you get some mutual funds of your own.
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: Then, I’m guessing you decided to go even further down the rabbit hole, and pretty soon you’re thinking, “I can do this. I want to keep going more hands-on more hands-on,” and eventually I’m guessing that led to you just wanting to learn that much more about stocks. For me, it led down to penny stocks. I don’t know if that’s where your rabbit hole’s going to go.
Judd: No.
Clay: But, it sounds like, is that where you’re headed is just you wanting to get even more and more hands-on where now eventually mutual funds aren’t good enough. You want individual stocks.
Judd: Yeah. But that’s a pretty good story in itself. I really wasn’t thinking about getting into stocks. Let’s see. Me and the wife, we got married in 2011. We had our first son in 2012. In 2014, my cousin, this is how I got into stocks was right here. In 2014, Fourth of July party, I’m living in Arizona. My daughter was just born. She was born in April of 2014. We flew back to Indiana. My dad always throws this huge Fourth of July party, right?
Judd: My cousin was going to be at this party, and she started dating this other gentleman. Now, this is where the story gets interesting. My dad’s throwing this huge Fourth of July party. Everybody’s having a good time. My dad and mom love Elvis. So they have this Elvis impersonator there, singing all these Elvis songs. I can’t stand all this.
Judd: It’s just miserable listening to this guy, whatever, whatever. So, it gets dark outside, Elvis is done singing. He’s sitting at just a table with my cousin’s boyfriend at the time, and they’re talking about stocks. So I sit down, and I’m the cool guy, right? I’m like, “Oh, yeah. I’ve got some mutual funds.” And they’re like, “Okay.” They’re talking about trading stocks, futures, options, stuff.
Judd: I have no idea what any of this stuff is. So, I’m intrigued. So, we sit there and I listen to this Elvis impersonator and my cousin’s boyfriend talking about stocks. Then the wheels start turning. I’m like, “If Elvis can do it, I can do it.” That’s literally when it clicked for me. If Elvis can trade stocks, I know I can trade stocks.
Clay: I was hoping our stories would be mirror images, but you have me beat 10 times.
Judd: This is where we go different ways, right?
Clay: You have me beat so much in a better way. You sparked your interest into individual stocks by an Elvis impersonator.
Judd: Correct.
Clay: That’s fantastic.
Judd: He’s a family friend of my dad. My dad’s known him a long time. So, every party my dad has, Elvis shows up and he does his thing. He brings all his gear, he starts singing Elvis songs and everything. My dad loves that. But I’m thinking if Elvis can trade stocks, I can trade stocks. The kicker here is, is my cousin’s boyfriend, I find out he does this for a living. He’s been doing this full-time. And he’s a lot younger than me. I’ll just call him B.
Judd: B’s 33 right now. Yeah. I think he’s about 33 years old right now. He’s been trading stocks since he was like 20. College guy. He’s a California kid. College dropout. I think he owned a cow and started … He’s an engineer. We could throw that out there. I’ll give you engineers props. He was going to be an engineer. He never graduated, though, I think. But, he started trading stocks full-time.
Judd: This is his full-time gig. At that time, I was always calling him. Calling him and picking his brain. At the time, they lived in Indiana, him and my cousin, and he was working at the steel mills up there as an engineer. If you know all along, like U.S. Steel and all that right up there along Lake Michigan, you’ve got all those steel mills up there. He was working at the steel mills as an engineer.
Judd: He designs the big melting pots and stuff like that. The kid’s a super genius. He was doing that kind of work up there, and he was just doing it part-time. But, he traded stocks full-time. That was his gig. That was his major source of income. He would just pick up these contracts to go design a new melting pot, get paid for it and not work again for three or four months.
Judd: So, I was always started picking his brain. Started picking his brain. In 2015, they moved to Florida. Him and my cousin bought a house in Florida, in Panama City Beach. We were just there visiting them over the weekend. We flew out there to see their place and we hung out for a week. We’re eating dinner one night, and we’ve been talking about stocks, and I’m watching him do his thing and everything.
Judd: So I flat out ask him. I’m like, “Hey, man. If I give you 10 grand, can you double it for me? I’m going to give you $10,000. Will you invest it for me?” He looks straight at me. He says, “No.” It made the conversation really weird really quick, right? And he’s like, “But what I can do is I can teach you this. I can teach you what to do.”
Judd: I said, “Okay.” Mostly, he’s big into swing trading, and futures. Futures was his thing. He trades futures, mostly. But he was going to teach me swing trading. He’s like, “I’m not going to get you into futures, though.” I was like, “Well, how do I get started?” Gave me a bunch of books to read. I know your position on books. You’ve made it, not that books are bad. But, hands-on is where it’s at, and I’m with you on that 100%. He was like, “You need to read these books.” So he gave me a bunch of books.
Judd: I’m studying, and I’m studying and I’m studying. Then he says, “You think you’re ready to do this.” I think, “Yeah.” He’s like, “Okay, now you’re going to paper trade.” I’m like, “Paper trade? What’s paper trade?” As you read these books, you’re going to learn how to paper trade.” He got me started with TOS, thinkorswim. It was pretty neat, because he was using thinkorswim at the time, so he sent me over his setup. Does that make sense? I guess you can save your files on that. I don’t use it anymore.
Clay: Yeah.
Judd: So he sent me the file over for that. He was like, “Look. This is all set up.” Sent me over. Told me how to open it, and use it and everything like that. I started swing trading paper, as I’m going through these books and learning this stuff. I think I did pretty good. But all these books, they all led me pretty much to the same thing was join a community. I’ll get to this. This is pretty much how I came to you too.
Judd: Join a community. Join a community. Join a community. I started asking Brandon, because as far as I knew, he didn’t do anything like that. He did pay for some education and stuff. And I’ll just throw that out there. Folks, nothing’s free. If you want something, you’re going to have to pay for it. If you want education, you pay for books. You want to learn about something, you have to buy a book. Nobody’s going to tell you how to do anything for free.
Judd: I guess that’s my mentality. I don’t know how you feel about that, but even if you want to educate yourself a little bit, even a book costs you money.
Clay: Well, I would say that what costs you the most money is, “No, it’s all for free on YouTube. I’m going to go that way. Whoop. That was a mistake. You know what I learned from that mistake.” “Oh, yeah. How much did that mistake cost you?” “$1,000.” “You know what? If you would’ve just invested some money in your education, you would have avoided that entire $1,000 loss.”
Clay: I feel like a lot of times people forget, they overlook the fact of one part of education is not necessarily that it’s going to help you grow your account, but it’ll at least help you, prevent you and help you avoid losing money. Which, a penny saved is a penny earned. So in many situations, you’re going to … Like you said, nothing’s free.
Judd: Nothing is free.
Clay: You’re going to pay for it one way or the other. Some people decide they’re going to pay for it with thousands upon thousands of dollars in losses that, sure they twist in their own mind, “Well, it was a learning lesson.” “Well, yeah, you know what? It was a learning lesson where you could’ve paid half of that amount and learned to just avoid that in the first place.” There’s no free way to go about it. I think that’s why most people fail is they go through the …
Clay: Again, I don’t think Judd’s saying, I’m not saying that there is zero value on YouTube, there is zero value in the world out there that we live in. But, it’s very limited. And, there’s just so much out there. When it’s just randomness, you can get overwhelmed. And in your overwhelming, as you learn from your mistakes, that’s the problem with trading is learning from your mistakes means you’re losing money, unless you have a money tree.
Clay: You can only learn from so many mistakes. Most people, the mistakes add up way too fast against them. Again, it circles back to … And a lot of those mistakes could have been avoided in the first place, had they just invested into a quality program to begin with. That was probably longer of an answer than what you were looking for. But, that’s where I stand, if that makes sense.
Judd: I’m in the exact same position. Like I said. You’re going to have to pay for some kind of education. I’m with you. YouTube has some good content. Even with YouTube, it’s just kind of … I’m not saying it’s bad. You can get a good stepping stone. I think YouTube is a good stepping stone. I’ll come out and say that. YouTube is a place to go learn and kind of figure out what’s what and who’s who.
Judd: But to educate yourself further, you have to invest in yourself. This is no … Clay is not paying me to say this. I’m just saying this out loud just for anybody’s sake out there. Pay for a good investment. Or, pay for a good education. And it helps. I can honestly say, it will pay off longterm. Am I saying you can buy a book and you’re instantly going to make thousands of dollars? No.
Judd: Are you going to pay top notch for a trading program, a college education, some kind of trading school or whatever? No. You’re not going to make hundreds of thousands of dollars out of the gate. It doesn’t work like that. But getting back to where we were, B was, he was a lone wolf. He wasn’t a part of any kind of a channel or any kind of your chatroom or any kind of program or anything like that.
Judd: He just kind of just went off and he just does his own thing, and he’s been doing it a long time and it’s, like I said, now that he lives in Florida, this is his full-time job. He doesn’t have another job in Florida or anything like that. So, getting back to it is … He taught me a lot. I was lucky enough to have him help me out. I did join a chat, like another thing, just for swing trading. Just to help out with swing trading.
Judd: Find good entries, give you good trading ideas. This was the other thing that I think I can get at. Just because somebody says this is a good trade, it might not be a good trade for you. Does that make sense?
Clay: That makes a million percent. A million percent.
Judd: A million percent.
Clay: Yes.
Judd: And I’ll say this, Clay, even with you. You throw alerts out there and it just might not fit my criteria. I don’t have to take every single trade that somebody, “Oh, man. This is going to be a good trade, or I’m in this.” But hey, I don’t like the setup. I don’t like where it’s got the fundamentals. I don’t like the technicals. It’s just not for me. You know?
Clay: See, the problem with that, though, if this was a business meeting, and we’re talking with each other and saying, “Hey, Judd. How can we sell as much product as necessary?” The problem with what you just said is that requires you thinking for yourself. That requires you being able to think for yourself.” So why don’t we just tell people, “Hey, listen. I have all the alerts. I have everything. You just follow me.” Because, wouldn’t you agree, Judd? That sounds like a whole lot easier than actually having to learn how to think for yourself, doesn’t it?
Judd: If everybody did that, we’d all be millionaires, right?
Clay: A lot of people, they miss that factor of, “Okay, well if this guy’s so good …” Again, I’m not saying that those people that do that, that their results aren’t good. But, that is their results, and you are not them, and we all have different risk tolerance levels, and that is why … I get it from a business perspective, from a sales perspective, yeah that’s a fantastic model to just tell people, “You don’t have to think for yourselves. Look at my results. I’ll tell you what to do.”
Clay: But that’s just not, and what Judd’s saying is that’s just not how quite it works. Because just because a trade might be good for you doesn’t mean it’s actually good for somebody else, and there’s … I fully agree, and you’re absolutely right, but that’d be my nitpick is what you’re describing here requires a person to actually have to put in the time and effort and dedication to learn a thing for themselves. But you’re absolutely right about that.
Judd: Right. And like you said, there’s no guarantees. I could say that even your phone, somebody else in another chat, or somebody makes an alert, that guy might have, like you said, a different better working capital than you. You’re going to take a guy maybe that has a $2,500 account and he thinks he’s going to hop right in with this trade, and if it goes sideways, man, he just lost half of his account in one trade. That’s where I said, that’s where the education part comes in. You have to educate yourself, and just make sure that the set up works for you.
Judd: One of the things that I learned, I guess going back to just me start … Now I’m starting out as a trader. The other thing I see is your system that works for you. Your system. And, everybody starts asking. And I did this. “How do you do it?” And I’d ask Brandon, or I just said his name. But, yeah, I’d just ask B. I don’t know if you can edit that out.
Judd: We’ll start over real quick. So, I asked B, “What is your trading strategy? What is your system?” And he says, “This is what I do, but I don’t recommend it for you. This is how I do it.” You kind of, as an individual, the more and more you start doing this, you develop your own trading strategy. Everybody’s strategies, it’s completely different. I don’t know if you’d agree with that. Like I said, it’s just you have to develop your own way, your own trading style, whether it’s swinging stocks, or options trading, or futures trading, or shorting the market or going long in a market.
Judd: Me, personally, so going back to my swing trading, I started swing trading, I would only go long. I never short the market. That was one of the rules that I put in place. I would only buy stuff on an up trend. I developed my own screeners, and that’s where when you ask somebody, “How do you set your screeners up? How do you find stocks?” This is kind of what I do, and you can get creative with it and just find something that works for you.
Judd: I can tell you going long, I like something over the 200 and over the 50. That’s in a good up trend that’s consolidating. That’s a good place to start. Now it’s up to you to figure out the rest of your entry point, your exit point. Where are you going? Where do you want this stock to go? I think a lot of people, that’s where the hold and hope comes in.
Judd: Now I’m going to swing trade. And man, I can tell you, it was a rollercoaster ride. The emotional part of it. Man, the ups and downs. I guess I could tell you, I’ve done it ll. You’re going to tell the stock market what to do. You’re right on. The stock is wrong. You’re right. And next thing you know, you’re down 1,000 bucks on a trade, or you’re down 1,500 on a trade.
Judd: Holding through earnings. I’ve done that. I remember holding through earnings, I think like … Stock it was. But, I got kicked in the teeth on earnings one time. I remember I held through one earnings on one, and I made like 1,500 bucks. I’m like, “Oh, man. This thing sky rocketed.” That was an awesome deal. This was two or three years ago. I couldn’t tell you what it was. But then right after that, I held through another earnings, and it was down like 2,000.
Judd: So I’m like, “Man, this …” And going forward, these are rules that you set in place for yourself. Like, I don’t like earnings. I won’t hold New York position through earnings. That’s pretty much how I started swing trading. Like I said, I had pretty good help with B helping me out, and then joining a chatroom and educating myself. I learned about Fibonacci. Fibonaccis were pretty good. I like the retracement level. At least you can go back and look at the 50% retracement level, try to find a good balance. Pretty much traded on that. And then, that’s what led me to you.
Judd: Then I’m like, “Okay, I swing traded.” Then COVID hit, right? So now, I got put on a work from home type deal with my business. I’m like, “I want to get into day trading.” I’m watching the markets go up and down. The stocks are just going nuts. Crazy volatility. So then I picked up a couple books on day trading, and they pretty much said the same thing, “Hey, join a community. Join a community. Join a community.”
Judd: So, here’s where old YouTube came in. I’m looking and scanning through stuff. Then I’d Google day trading communities, and stuff like that. Man, there was millions more to cycle through. Then, I’ll be honest, I came across you and I was like, “Man. I kind of like this guy’s style.” I liked your trading style. I read a lot about your program. I liked your program. I just liked the setup.
Judd: I guess like a good trade, I liked the setup that you had going on. I was like, “Man, I think I’m going to give this guy a shot. I think I joined your community in March. March or April.
Clay: That sounds about right. Yeah, give or take right around there. Yeah.
Judd: Yeah, so wanted to get into the day trading thing.
Clay: Now, what I remember about you, though, is you first just joined the community, just separately. You joined the chat room individually.
Judd: Correct. Yeah.
Clay: But what I also remember about you and what I just respect about you is you showed up and I want to say I think almost right away didn’t you just, “Well, can I upgrade to the educational package?”
Judd: I think it was the next day.
Clay: It was super fast. I’m like, “Okay, this guy’s here to ball.” He’s here to not tiptoe around. He’s not here to, “Oh, I can’t believe that …” No. You were just like, “Okay, well I want to do this.” Here’s that word. “How do I do that? Okay, you offer that? Okay. I want to do that.” It was just like, boom, boom, boom. That fast. That’s what I always remember about good old Judd is he was not messing around when he showed up.
Clay: Those people always stand out. When somebody shows up and it’s easy to sit there and say all the right things. But, you said the right things, and then you went and immediately did what you said you were going to do, which separates you from quite a few people, unfortunately, but I always remember that. Yeah, that was back in April. At that point, I guess I’ll just let you pick it up from there. You jumped into the full program, so where did your trading go from that point?
Judd: Yeah. Jumped into the full program. Just started hammering through it. I learned a lot about … I think your RVR course I thought that thing’s pretty awesome. I really enjoyed the RVR course. That, to me, that was probably, that’s where I learned the most. And the L2s. The L2s was huge for me. Because, swing trading, I never used L2s. I know that some guys do, some guys don’t. I know you could go back and find good resistance levels, support resistance levels with L2s.
Judd: I, personally, I never used it. I was always, when I swung trade I would find a good … I would find a good entry point, and then I would find my exit. Then, I would mitigate after that. I would start taking … My mitigation was when I hit my number, 50% of my shares come off. And then, if I go over my exit, kind of let it ride, I would take another 25% of my shares off. Then, I would let the rest ride out and just keep it just in my stop-loss.
Judd: That’s how I swung trade. With the day trading, going from swing trading to day trading to me is the speed. Not that I still, I’m getting better at it, but the speed gets me. It’s so fast. It’s way faster what I’m used to. I’m used to setting up my trade plan. Every Saturday morning, I like to get up. I get up at like four o’clock in the morning. I get up. I like to set up. I go through my scanners. I find stocks that I like. I narrow it down to five.
Judd: Then out of those five, I really just get nitty gritty and pick three out of those five to swing trade. With the day trading, that’s where I struggle. It’s just the speed of it. It’s just how fast everything moves for me. I tried to day trade with E*TRADE. That was a disaster. I don’t know if I can say that. Can I say that? Do we get in trouble for that?
Clay: Worst case, they’ll send … I don’t know. You’re just giving a user review.
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: I guess my question, well how was it a disaster? Because for all we know, there’s a listener out there that’s either using E*TRADE and struggling, or maybe they’re thinking about using E*TRADE. So, how was it a disaster for you?
Judd: It’s clunky. It’s hard. It’s too slow to make entries and exits. It’s way too slow, to day trade. Now, I’ll be honest. The E*TRADE charts, I like the E*TRADE charts. I like the E*TRADE information. I think they have a really good platform. I know a lot of people don’t use it. I do like their platform. I guess now that I probably know how to navigate it pretty well. They have a really good risers and fallers. They have really good analysts, I think, that give you some pretty good ideas, and give you …
Judd: I could tell you the best swing trade I ever had wasn’t that long ago. It might have been last year. A company called DEXCOM. I think you can look at the ticker symbol. DXCM, it might be.
Clay: Yeah. I know exactly what you’re talking about. That one’s some crazy moves.
Judd: Crazy moves. I think I entered into that thing at like $85, and I think I cashed out at like 3:45 or something like that. That was one of the best swing trades I’ve ever had. I’m not saying they’re all going to be like that, guys. I found that on E*TRADE. That was one of the analysts. We were all really high on it. They had some good news that was going to come out. E*TRADE for swing trading, it works for me. Now, it might not work for everybody. But E*TRADE for day trading, man, I struggled. I struggled big time.
Judd: Then, from there, TOS. I’m back to TOS now. I just use TOS for paper trading. I’m like, “Okay, well I can paper trade with TOS. I never opened an account with them. I just used the whole free version of them. So, I got set up with TOS to day trade. Man, just the same thing. The speed just got to me. I would ask B to give me a hand. “Hey, man. How do you set up this stop-loss and all this stuff?” And it’s got that weird window on the side that you slide the thing up and down. I didn’t care for it.
Judd: So I got rid of that. Now, I know that B started using TradeStation. I never used that one. But then, I did switch over to Webull from there, for just day trading. I’m still doing my swing trading in E*TRADE. I switched over to Webull for the day trading. It got better, but I still felt like the speed, the entry and exits, it just wasn’t there for me.
Clay: And you’re still all on the free platforms at this point?
Judd: Correct.
Clay: You’ve gone from free to free to free, as far as commissions.
Judd: Free to free to free. Correct. Yeah. Correct. Now, when I joined E*TRADE, it was still commission based. It wasn’t bad because I had so much equity in it. I think I was only paying $2.95 per trade. Does that make sense? I know I think E*TRADE was like 595 per trade. But, the more equity you put in, the cheaper it gets. E*TRADE’s free now. But, yeah. Going back, I’m still like free, free, free, and it’s just not working out for me.
Judd: So then, I see a couple guys in the chatroom using Lightspeed. I see you using Lightspeed and I’m like, “Man, just how fast you can get in and out of these trades.” So I’m like, “You know what? I am going to switch to Lightspeed.” Like I said, going back to the whole free thing. There’s a price to be paid with using free stuff. Like you said, if you don’t want to invest in yourself and try to learn how to trade stocks, you’re going to pay the price.
Judd: So, going back to Lightspeed, I opened up a Lightspeed account, and man …
Clay: I remember that in the chatroom. I was like, “Judd’s going to like it.” It was hook, line and sinker.
Judd: It’s awesome. I can say it’s … Man, just getting in and out fast. With Lightspeed, I think you definitely have to use more of a mental stop. Does that make … I know with the other brokerages, like when you enter in a trade you can set your stop-loss ahead of time. With Lightspeed, at least I haven’t figured out how to do this. Maybe you’ve done it. I don’t think you can set up a predetermined stop-loss. Am I right on that?
Clay: You are incorrect. You can.
Judd: You can? Okay.
Clay: Yeah. On your order entry box, there is … Are you in front of your computer right now?
Judd: I am.
Clay: Are you looking at the order entry box?
Judd: I am.
Clay: Do you have something underneath symbol that says type?
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: Then you see where it says limit?
Judd: I do see limit. Yeah.
Clay: Click on that dropdown, and then you have your stops. A couple down. You have a stop and then a stop limit. Then you have a trailing stop. Do you see all those?
Judd: I do. Yeah.
Clay: There you go. You just want to click stop, and if you click on that, then it’ll just ask you to put in what price you want your stop to be at. So there’s your predetermined stop. There’s your like-
Judd: No, no. Yeah, I know how to do that. I’m talking about like with thinkorswim. Like you can make an entry, but you can have your stop-loss already pre-programmed. That’s what I’m talking about.
Clay: Got you. Like an advanced order. Like one cancels-
Judd: Yes.
Clay: I don’t know. I’m not quite sure.
Judd: Yeah, well see with E*TRADE in my swings I use, they call it a three-leg bracket. That’s the one.
Clay: Yeah. Advanced orders, bracket orders. Different brokers call them different things. Okay. Sorry about that. Now I see what you’re saying.
Judd: Yeah. I think with Lightspeed, I don’t think they have, at least I haven’t figured it out. So, you’re using a mental stop. You definitely have to use a mental stop with Lightspeed, and I can honestly say I did struggle at first. Because-
Clay: I guess here’s what …
Judd: Yeah, go ahead.
Clay: What do you mean by mental stop? Mental, I envision is you not putting in an actual hard stop.
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: Which you can do with Lightspeed, though. As soon as you get into a position, you could do what we just walked through and put in a hard stop.
Judd: Yes. I know you can do that. I guess, remember? This wasn’t that long ago. Maybe it was a month or two ago. It was one of your trading seminars. See, and I use Lightspeed … I was looking to day trade as more of a scalper. I’m in and out. I didn’t start … Not like I was swing trading. You know what I’m saying? How I would start mitigating prices out. That’s where I kind of, I struggled with that a little bit out of the gates, to where I’m in and out. Does that make sense? Like, okay I’m going to short AMD at $50 and if it goes down to 49, I’m out.
Judd: Like, I didn’t mitigate. I remember there was a training seminar, and then it clicked for me. I’m like, “Oh, so I can start mitigating out of this.” But going back to the whole mental stop thing. It was like, “Okay, I’m going to watch this, and if it bounces back on me, I’m going to get in a trade of 50, I’m going to short it to 50. Oh, man. It’s at 51. Oh man, it’s at 53. Is it going to bounce back down?”
Judd: So, I had a hard time watching it. That’s where, like you said, the brain does some crazy things. I’m trying to argue with the stock like, “No, you need to come back down,” and it does bounce the wrong way on you, and you end up taking a pretty big loss because you didn’t put your stop in where you should have.
Clay: Yeah. And that’s the pros and cons with the hard stop verse a mental stop. Because mental stops, they can save you at times. They’ll keep you in trades and not let you get cheap shotted out. But, they also open up the opportunity to what Judd was just fully disclosing, which I appreciate the candor. Just, all of a sudden, your mind starts playing funny games with you. All of a sudden, the stock is way beyond what you originally told yourself you would stop out at.
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: As is the case in anything in life, pros and cons everywhere.
Judd: Yeah. I can say I’ve gotten way better at the mental stops now. Because like I said, to me it’s the speed. I’d earn a trade and by the time I’d go down here to get … Especially, like a Tesla’s a pretty good example. I’d get in the trade and I’m going down here to set my stop-loss, and yeah like the things are already crashing down or it’s already bounced up so fast. Like, it already bounced past where you thought you were going to put your stop-loss in real quick.
Judd: That part of it to me, I’ve decided mental stops. You’re just going to use mental stops, and you’re going to stick with it no matter what. Losing trade, get out. I’ve definitely been able … I’ve gotten pretty good to the point to where I’m not letting myself crash and burn. That part of it is getting better for me.
Clay: What does your ideal setup look like? What are you looking at? Because, looking at the time, time is flying by. Not that we have to end it right now, but just as we start to wrap things up here. What would be an ideal setup for you. What’s a situation where you’re like, “Hey, that looks good enough for me to feel comfortable putting some of my money into that trade.”
Judd: I love going long.
Clay: You love going long?
Judd: I love going long. I don’t like short in anything. In a down market, I use context for everything. I’ll be honest. Like when the stock market’s going up, I don’t short anything. I look for longs. I like going long. I look for that setup. ZM had a really good one today. I like that it goes up, takes a breath, consolidates, and I know it’s going to break that next le … Not that I know. But, it looks pretty good, looking at the volume coming in, looking at the L2s, that it’s going to break that upper resistance and keep shooting-
Clay: I know exactly what pattern you’re talking about. It was already in the bullish context with the gap up. Consolidated beautiful.
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: Yeah, no. That was a great setup. If only those came around every single day.
Judd: Right.
Clay: You took that trade, right?
Judd: I did. Oh, yeah. I took the trade.
Clay: Good. All right.
Judd: And that goes back to, you just said it. You don’t have to trade every day. I probably only trade maybe three days a week. If I don’t see something I don’t like, I don’t trade. I don’t force anything. Because, I’ve been there, done that. I can say I’m new to day trading, been swing trading for a while now, comfortably. So I’ve only, what are we, September? So I’ve been day trading maybe six months now, five months? Five months. Comfortably.
Judd: Like I said, I still learn a lot every day, but I have definitely started to figure out my rhythm, what I look for. What I look for. On my charts, I use the 200, the 50, and the VWAP. With my swing trades, I like the 200, the 50 and the 10. I do like the 10, just for on daily charts. I pretty much just watch the daily charts and the hourly charts with my swing trades.
Judd: But, on my day trades, I use the one minute and then on the other monitor I like the two minute, the five minute, and then I have a 30 minute and a daily. Just so I can get a really good overall picture. With Lightspeed, I can say I like the risers and fallers chart. Man, I think that thing’s pretty slick. I like the ticker alerts. Lightspeed has made a difference. Like I said, I’m not saying that. It works for me. It works well. I like the execution speed, because that’s where I struggled with. I struggled with just the speed of day trading.
Clay: That’s also a big distinction, which this may not pertain … If you don’t need exits and entries as fast as what Judd and I need them, then you could very well be using and you should be using, in all actuality, Webull or some other sort of free broker. But, if speed matters and if speed is one of the most important things that’s part of your strategy, then yeah, sorry, free is not quite free and those platforms probably not going to work out for you.
Clay: That might be a source of your problems. But, at the end of the day, sometimes you’ve just got to pay up for what you need. But again, that all depends on your strategy. It depends on what you need, because you very well, for all … Like Judd was saying, he still uses E*TRADE as a free broker, just because it’s swing trading. It’s not as intense.
Clay: You don’t need to be in and out as quick as what you would need to be with day trading. We’re not saying that Lightspeed is the be-all-end all. It’s just for this particular need, that’s with just helping, and assisting and making things more efficient and quite frankly possible. Because, it’s going to be impossible to try to scale up if you’re using some sort of broker that’s not quite as fast, such as a direct access like Lightspeed. Yeah, definitely good distinctions there.
Clay: And something that, I guess in hindsight it’s like, “Oh, yeah. Of course that’s the case.” But when you’re new and you don’t know what you don’t know, you don’t really think to look at stuff like that. Would you agree with that?
Judd: Absolutely. Absolutely. I guess it just goes back to just stick with what works for you. Quit. I gave everything a shot. It just, nothing was working out the way I thought. And if Lightspeed didn’t work out either, I would try to find something else. But so far, I’m happy with it. I think I was talking with [Kiona 01:10:55]. I hope I said his name right.
Clay: [Kynoa 01:10:58].
Judd: Kynoa. I use Lightspeed charts. Man, they could be better. I’m kind of disappointed in their charts. I tried setting Webull charts with them and everything, but it was too clunk for me to just set everything around. So, I stuck with that. I do use Webull on another monitor to watch. I pick like three stocks I want to watch and just see what’s going on. I always have the spy up on Webull. But, I use Lightspeed charts. They’re okay. They serve their purpose.
Judd: One day, I do like the eSignal charts. I think those things are pretty slick too. I’m just not ready and that goes back to you’ve got to pay for a good product. Eventually, I will switch to eSignal, probably, but just not right now. I’m still getting used to the whole day trading thing. Let me get good at this. If I get good at this, then I’ll switch over to eSignal. I’m pretty confident in myself, I’ll get there. I’ll get there. I’m green. Right now, six months in, I’m at the positive. It started out really rocky for me, though, I’ll be honest. With the whole day trading thing.
Judd: I was down a couple grand pretty quick. Then I had to kind of take a step back and refocus. The strategy that you’re using is not working, and battle back. I’m not saying every day’s going to be like that. You’re going to have ups and downs, but Lightspeed has made the world of difference for me. It really has. I’m not here … They’re not paying me to say that. I just really like the brokerage. I like the execution speed is huge for me. So, we’ll leave it at that.
Clay: It’s hard to be a high frequency day trader, a scalper or whatever you want to call yourself if you don’t have the speed that you need. Like I said, and like when we talk about the free brokers, it’s only a couple seconds delayed. Well yeah, two seconds, three seconds in the world of day trading like the type Judd and I are talking about and doing, that might as well be two or three hours or two or three weeks. Because, seconds can make a big difference, especially if you’re talking like a stock such as Tesla or something like that that can move crazy amounts in just a few seconds.
Clay: But, yeah. You’ve got to have the right tools. Glad you’ve battled back. Glad you’ve gotten that figured out. Good to hear that you’re in the green. I feel like that’s a good little kind of ending point there, because will you come back at some point so you can continue to update us on where things went from this point?
Judd: Absolutely. Yeah. I’m not going anywhere for a while. I do, like I said, I love trading stocks. Like I said, I’m in a position in life I’m pretty successful. I like doing this. I’m looking at this. I’m going to be completely not working by the time I’m 55, and this is what I want to do to supplement a pretty good income. Yeah.
Clay: Good stuff. I feel like that’s a good segue right into the time machine question. If you were to be lent the time machine and you could go back to the start, give yourself one bit of advice, what would that bit of advice be?
Judd: Man. Clay, I’ll be honest. I’m pretty blessed in life. I don’t think I’d change anything. If I had to change one thing, I wish I would’ve finished college. As dumb as that sounds. I got an associate’s. I wish I would’ve just went and finished and got my bachelor’s. That’s probably just my one regret. But, man, I’ve had a really good life. I’m pretty successful. I’ve got no complaints, man. I really don’t. If the only thing I could go back and change, it would just be finish college. As dumb as-
Clay: No, I was wondering how you would answer that. Because, it’s not like you came out of the gates and you threw your life savings into some penny stock. You went very wisely. You found a mentor who happened to be just somebody within your sphere of influence. You started off with education at the forefront from the get-go. Yeah. I was curious how you would answer that, just because I can’t say there’s any glaring red flags in terms of how …
Clay: Some people, they just start off and they just do some things you’re like, “Wait, you did what?” But, yeah. You didn’t really have any of those, “Wait, what?” Type moments in your journey. All right, well time for the fun questions and the biggest question I have for you is can I come hunting with you in Arizona at some point?
Judd: You sure can, man. Any time.
Clay: All right. Because, I’m …
Judd: We’ve got every critter out here you could imagine.
Clay: Including mountain lions, right?
Judd: Including mountain lions. Yeah. I’m still trying to get that sucker. He’s hanging out up there at my cabin. The thing with those things, man, they’ll move 20 miles in a day. They just run in a big old circle. That’s the time and thing for that guy. But, man if I get him, man a full mount up at the cabin.
Clay: Yeah. You’re in Arizona still, right?
Judd: Yes.
Clay: I feel like once you mentioned you were back in Indiana and you saw the mountain lion, was that through, do you have trail cams and stuff set up?
Judd: Yeah, trail cams. Yeah. Yeah, I’ve got trail cams all over around my property up there. Yeah, they’ve got turkeys, deer, mountain lion, elk, you name it. Everything up there.
Clay: I want to go elk hunting. Do you do any of this with a bow, or is it all a gun?
Judd: Bow. So elk out here, it’s drawn. You’ve got to get drawn for it. I’ve been drawn for archery, which it’s a little bit easier to do. It’s a really hard hunt. The September archeries, they’re pretty dumb. They’re in the rut, so you can call them straight to you. But I did get drawn this year for big rifle.
Judd: The day after Thanksgiving is when my hunt starts. That’s a week hunt. You guys probably won’t see me that following week after Thanksgiving. I’ll be chasing elk around in the mountains, so I probably won’t be around. That’s pretty exciting.
Clay: And that’s a good time to be away, because it’s not like … There’s not a whole lot going on during that time this season anyways, as far as the market’s concerned. So yeah, chase away in the mountains with full confidence that you’re not missing any sort of life changing opportunities within the market.
Judd: Right.
Clay: So, yeah. I feel like I have a contact now if I ever want to do some hunting in Arizona. I’ll maybe just invite myself over to have Judd as my personal guide, and we’ll see what kind of trouble we can get ourselves into.
Judd: Right. Come on out. I always go back to Indiana every year and go bow hunting. That’s a guarantee. Even where you live up in Michigan, man there’s more deer than people. That’s exciting. I hope you like hunting. You haven’t shot a deer yet, right?
Clay: No. I’m just still shooting at … For listener’s sake, I bought a bow back in, let’s see right before CO … Yeah, like Februaryish, because I want to get into it. Now my one daughter, she is all for it. Now at this point, I have to get into it, because my daughter’s like thinking her dad’s some sort of great hunter. I’m like, “Well, technically speaking, Dot, just because you shoot a bow doesn’t mean you’re a hunter.” I’m working on it, though.
Judd: Nice. Let me know how that first time goes when you try to pull that bow back when you see a deer. Just let me know how that goes.
Clay: Everybody keeps saying, “Clay, Clay, listen buddy.”
Judd: That first time, man.
Clay: “Before you go stalk all elk and all that grand visions, let’s see how you do just with a deer in your crosshairs.” I’m thinking, “You know what? I feel like this is trading. I think I might be getting a little too far ahead of myself.” Let’s just see how my heart and how my muscles function and my mental fortitude stand when just I’m looking at a deer, let alone an elk.
Judd: Yeah.
Clay: You’re yet another person that’s told me, “One step at a time. Let’s first focus on deer.” I think there’s a common thread here. But, good stuff. Anyways, I totally sidetracked the conversation.
Judd: Not a problem.
Clay: But, I feel like those people that they only wanted the nitty gritty trading stuff, they probably turned us off. But, what about your movie? What is your favorite movie?
Judd: Man. The Back to the Future trilogy and the Indiana Jones movies, man. God, Indiana Jones I could watch just nonstop, just all of them in a row, and just re-watch them again.
Clay: What about the fourth one? Do you count that as part of the series?
Judd: No. That one don’t count.
Clay: Yeah. That won’t ever happen as far as I’m concerned.
Judd: Raiders of the Lost Ark, Temple of Doom and The Last Crusade, in those orders, dude. Those are the best.
Clay: Yeah. Those are classics. My favorite is The Last Crusade, but it’s hard to go wrong with Sean Connery in there. But it was, “The pen is mightier than the sword.” Do you remember?
Judd: That’s right.
Clay: Yeah.
Judd: That’s right.
Clay: Good stuff. Anyways, what about your favorite food?
Judd: Dude, I’m a seafood guy, man. Fish, and game. Like deer meat. Man, give me some deer back strap, fish, seafood, crab legs, lobster. I like all food, man.
Clay: I don’t think they have many lobsters in Wyoming, though, do they?
Judd: None. No. That’s a place you might be scared to eat sushi in Wyoming, man. I don’t know.
Clay: Probably in Arizona too. I just thought, I guess that’s a little closer to some water.
Judd: Not too bad. Yeah, not too bad. Not too bad.
Clay: Then, finally. Three words. And these three words would be what you would associate with what it takes to be a successful trader is, what would those words be?
Judd: Three words. Man. Probably patience. Patience would be my first one. Be patient. Like, don’t force it. Don’t tell it what you want it to do. Just be patient. Look for that setup, and wait for it. It might never come, and that’s okay. The next one, perseverance. You’ve just got to be able to weather the storm. You see a lot of guys come and go.
Judd: I think you just had a guy. I won’t name names. You just had a guy you probably did a podcast on not that long ago, and I think he’s gone. Man, you’ve got to be able to put yourself in the right situation and just persevere. You’ve got to be able to weather the bad times. You know? Don’t put yourself in that position where you get that far down. The last one, probably just be grateful. Be gracious. Be humble. Good or bad.
Judd: You lost a trade today. That’s okay. Don’t stew on it. That’s where the mental part comes in. Don’t stew on it. Don’t be upset about it. Because, you’ll have another good day. That’s just the mental aspect of it. But I think good or bad, just be grateful for the day. Be grateful for the trade. Those would be my three, man.
Clay: And those are good. I find them solid. I can’t say that I would nitpick them or disagree with them. So, good stuff for sure. Judd, thank you very much for taking some time out of your day and being here. Great time. I feel like we could keep on going. But, we’ve already gone well over the intended one hour-
Judd: Well over. Yeah.
Clay: But, that’s okay.
Judd: Yeah. That’s all right.
Clay: I think members … Not think. I know members, I think those people that aren’t members that are just listening in general, there are some great nuggets of wisdom, nuggets that have come from experience, and people are going to benefit from this for sure. But, glad to hear that you’ll come back. But, again, thank you very much, Judd.
Judd: Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Clay: Now, for your listeners out there, before we go, final few things. First off, if you’re listening on iTunes or any of the other podcast players, be sure to subscribe, that way you know when new content is released. Especially on iTunes, if you could leave us not only a rating but a written review, that goes a long way, really helps us out quite a bit. I thank you in advance for doing that. Then if you’re watching at claytrader.com, on the show notes page, then the bottom right-hand corner there’s a little chat bot there.
Clay: If you click on that and then request to speak to a human, then yeah it’ll be directed to us, and questions come and suggestions. We love to hear from people that listen to the podcast, so please reach out. Thank you to Judd, thank you to all of you as listeners, and we will see you back next week.
Announcer: This has been the Stock Trading Reality podcast. Thanks for taking the time to hang out. To learn more about Clay and the Clay Trader community, including the trading team, premium trading and more, visit claytrader.com.

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